1 00:00:07,110 --> 00:00:05,440 [Music] 2 00:00:13,390 --> 00:00:07,120 [Laughter] 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:22,029 [Music] 4 00:00:26,870 --> 00:00:25,250 welcome back to liminal frames I'm your 5 00:00:28,370 --> 00:00:26,880 host Nathan and I'm joined by my friend 6 00:00:31,910 --> 00:00:28,380 and co-host 7 00:00:35,450 --> 00:00:31,920 Darren EXO academian Darren we buy my 8 00:00:37,490 --> 00:00:35,460 math here we just finished about a 9 00:00:38,450 --> 00:00:37,500 podcast worth of content before we hit 10 00:00:41,990 --> 00:00:38,460 record 11 00:00:43,670 --> 00:00:42,000 uh and so we're about to do uh the 12 00:00:45,650 --> 00:00:43,680 actual show but for folks that are 13 00:00:49,310 --> 00:00:45,660 listening we just want you to know that 14 00:00:51,590 --> 00:00:49,320 before we hit record we uh do meet and 15 00:00:53,209 --> 00:00:51,600 and talk and kind of get into quite a 16 00:00:55,729 --> 00:00:53,219 bit of conversation before we really 17 00:00:57,590 --> 00:00:55,739 officially get started 18 00:00:59,330 --> 00:00:57,600 um and that conversation is not just 19 00:01:01,430 --> 00:00:59,340 catching up but 20 00:01:04,549 --> 00:01:01,440 trying to cover some of the ground that 21 00:01:05,149 --> 00:01:04,559 we hope to cover in the episode 22 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:05,159 um 23 00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:07,500 and explore some content that we won't 24 00:01:11,690 --> 00:01:09,780 and maybe explore later in future shows 25 00:01:13,429 --> 00:01:11,700 so Darren it's always good to catch up 26 00:01:16,130 --> 00:01:13,439 with you and I'm looking forward to this 27 00:01:17,750 --> 00:01:16,140 uh to the show our 19th episode indeed 28 00:01:19,010 --> 00:01:17,760 19 it's uh they're following along 29 00:01:19,730 --> 00:01:19,020 pretty quickly 30 00:01:21,890 --> 00:01:19,740 um 31 00:01:23,870 --> 00:01:21,900 yeah you know it's interesting because 32 00:01:26,870 --> 00:01:23,880 we're going to cover some material 33 00:01:29,510 --> 00:01:26,880 tonight that is fairly popular in 34 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:29,520 ufology right now but I think one thing 35 00:01:33,770 --> 00:01:31,560 we do on this show we try to do anyway 36 00:01:37,429 --> 00:01:33,780 uh we'll let the audience decide how 37 00:01:38,870 --> 00:01:37,439 well we do it but we try to bring sort 38 00:01:40,609 --> 00:01:38,880 of a deeper perspective a broader 39 00:01:43,010 --> 00:01:40,619 perspective if we ask the questions 40 00:01:45,410 --> 00:01:43,020 behind the questions you know we look at 41 00:01:47,590 --> 00:01:45,420 some of the assumptions behind some of 42 00:01:50,450 --> 00:01:47,600 the hypotheses that are put out there 43 00:01:52,429 --> 00:01:50,460 when there are sometimes like a fill in 44 00:01:55,190 --> 00:01:52,439 the blanks kind of scenario with ufology 45 00:01:58,069 --> 00:01:55,200 like for instance right now why is this 46 00:01:59,450 --> 00:01:58,079 report taking so long you know what are 47 00:02:01,850 --> 00:01:59,460 the secrets that are being hidden you 48 00:02:05,209 --> 00:02:01,860 know people have various assumptions 49 00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:05,219 that are fueling the options that come 50 00:02:08,630 --> 00:02:07,320 to mind for them and that's for me 51 00:02:10,729 --> 00:02:08,640 anyway it's more interesting to look at 52 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:10,739 those assumptions sometimes than it is 53 00:02:14,210 --> 00:02:12,000 the uh the multiple choice questions 54 00:02:16,910 --> 00:02:14,220 that they come up with 55 00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:16,920 mm-hmm well and just like the name of 56 00:02:21,710 --> 00:02:18,959 our show liminal frames we tend to kind 57 00:02:24,770 --> 00:02:21,720 of thrive in these in between states uh 58 00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:24,780 we're okay with uh I think holding some 59 00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:27,540 of this ambiguity uh together as much as 60 00:02:31,850 --> 00:02:30,120 possible and um 61 00:02:33,770 --> 00:02:31,860 sitting with that it's important to sit 62 00:02:37,130 --> 00:02:33,780 with that and in some instances be 63 00:02:39,890 --> 00:02:37,140 uncomfortable with not knowing and being 64 00:02:42,229 --> 00:02:39,900 in between a state of uh of ignorance 65 00:02:44,809 --> 00:02:42,239 and and knowledge 66 00:02:46,369 --> 00:02:44,819 um and so uh you know that being said 67 00:02:48,830 --> 00:02:46,379 let's jump into this tonight I know you 68 00:02:50,150 --> 00:02:48,840 already alluded to it to some degree and 69 00:02:52,970 --> 00:02:50,160 this is some territory that we've 70 00:02:55,250 --> 00:02:52,980 covered a little bit before but uh I 71 00:02:58,869 --> 00:02:55,260 think it's well worth treading again and 72 00:03:03,589 --> 00:03:01,729 and potentially negative reasons why 73 00:03:06,350 --> 00:03:03,599 we're not having disclosure or some of 74 00:03:07,790 --> 00:03:06,360 the negative aspects uh related to the 75 00:03:10,070 --> 00:03:07,800 UFO phenomena 76 00:03:12,830 --> 00:03:10,080 that may have kept Folks up at night 77 00:03:15,350 --> 00:03:12,840 there's certainly lots of anecdotes that 78 00:03:18,170 --> 00:03:15,360 we've heard uh the word somber of course 79 00:03:20,990 --> 00:03:18,180 is the more recent but Jimmy Carter and 80 00:03:23,149 --> 00:03:21,000 his you know crying episode comes to 81 00:03:25,809 --> 00:03:23,159 mind as well the point is there's a lot 82 00:03:30,470 --> 00:03:25,819 of deeply troubling things potentially 83 00:03:32,869 --> 00:03:30,480 uh related to disclosure and just like 84 00:03:34,670 --> 00:03:32,879 you would expect us to do we're 85 00:03:38,270 --> 00:03:34,680 certainly going to point out that 86 00:03:40,309 --> 00:03:38,280 how troubling it may be is a function of 87 00:03:43,149 --> 00:03:40,319 who that person and who those groups 88 00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:43,159 happen to be but nevertheless I think 89 00:03:47,750 --> 00:03:46,260 you know ontologically destabilizing is 90 00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:47,760 a different way of putting it and is 91 00:03:53,030 --> 00:03:50,159 certainly true so Darren where would you 92 00:03:57,170 --> 00:03:53,040 like to start I know we had a recent uh 93 00:04:01,009 --> 00:03:57,180 you know show from Thomas Thompson who 94 00:04:03,110 --> 00:04:01,019 put out on his podcast an episode that 95 00:04:06,470 --> 00:04:03,120 he was relaying from 96 00:04:09,130 --> 00:04:06,480 like it was like a family friend uh or a 97 00:04:12,710 --> 00:04:09,140 family connection through a girlfriend 98 00:04:14,869 --> 00:04:12,720 and uh of an episode where they had uh 99 00:04:17,210 --> 00:04:14,879 stumbled across like I guess an alien 100 00:04:19,969 --> 00:04:17,220 being at an Air Force Base somewhere in 101 00:04:22,550 --> 00:04:19,979 Michigan and that individual had relayed 102 00:04:25,249 --> 00:04:22,560 this encounter to a member of their 103 00:04:26,749 --> 00:04:25,259 family and that family member was the 104 00:04:29,210 --> 00:04:26,759 person telling the story and they were 105 00:04:31,850 --> 00:04:29,220 basically hinting that maybe the fact 106 00:04:33,050 --> 00:04:31,860 that they had shared this knowledge uh 107 00:04:35,270 --> 00:04:33,060 and potentially had gotten that 108 00:04:38,930 --> 00:04:35,280 individual killed and it wasn't just the 109 00:04:40,670 --> 00:04:38,940 knowledge of this being that ended their 110 00:04:43,249 --> 00:04:40,680 lives or maybe got them in the 111 00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:43,259 crosshairs of some government agency but 112 00:04:47,749 --> 00:04:45,060 it was something else that couldn't even 113 00:04:48,950 --> 00:04:47,759 be articulated and maybe we can spend a 114 00:04:50,330 --> 00:04:48,960 little bit of time thinking about what 115 00:04:52,670 --> 00:04:50,340 that might be 116 00:04:54,710 --> 00:04:52,680 and whether or not it is something that 117 00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:54,720 we would 118 00:04:58,730 --> 00:04:57,300 be deeply troubled by right and one 119 00:04:59,570 --> 00:04:58,740 thing I would point out to people right 120 00:05:02,749 --> 00:04:59,580 away 121 00:05:04,129 --> 00:05:02,759 um is that I like to ask people to go 122 00:05:06,110 --> 00:05:04,139 through this spiritual exercise 123 00:05:07,249 --> 00:05:06,120 sometimes or energetic exercise you 124 00:05:09,050 --> 00:05:07,259 could call it 125 00:05:11,510 --> 00:05:09,060 and rather than using our rational 126 00:05:14,270 --> 00:05:11,520 brains and sort of creating pros and 127 00:05:15,830 --> 00:05:14,280 cons lists like we're prone to do like 128 00:05:18,050 --> 00:05:15,840 say if you're thinking about moving to 129 00:05:22,010 --> 00:05:18,060 St Louis or Melbourne or wherever you 130 00:05:23,330 --> 00:05:22,020 know Tokyo and you start you're not 131 00:05:25,010 --> 00:05:23,340 really in touch with how you really feel 132 00:05:27,230 --> 00:05:25,020 about it so you break out a list and you 133 00:05:28,909 --> 00:05:27,240 start going you know well Pro you know 134 00:05:31,370 --> 00:05:28,919 there's lots of nice restaurants you 135 00:05:32,450 --> 00:05:31,380 know you know Khan I don't speak the 136 00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:32,460 language very well right things like 137 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:34,320 this you go back and forth 138 00:05:38,570 --> 00:05:35,580 but 139 00:05:40,310 --> 00:05:38,580 what is sometimes more useful is to 140 00:05:42,110 --> 00:05:40,320 suddenly have someone sort of like set 141 00:05:43,310 --> 00:05:42,120 up a scenario for you you're three 142 00:05:44,689 --> 00:05:43,320 months in you're sitting in your 143 00:05:46,550 --> 00:05:44,699 apartment in Tokyo on top of the 144 00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:46,560 skyscraper how do you feel 145 00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:48,720 and sometimes in that moment we can tune 146 00:05:52,850 --> 00:05:50,340 into something in our gut something 147 00:05:55,370 --> 00:05:52,860 Central to who we are that's 148 00:05:57,110 --> 00:05:55,380 trans-rational and we'll know we'll 149 00:05:59,330 --> 00:05:57,120 either we'll have a good feeling or a 150 00:06:01,310 --> 00:05:59,340 negative feeling now after the fact we 151 00:06:03,650 --> 00:06:01,320 sometimes try to attach pros and cons to 152 00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:03,660 that but that initial Vibe is very 153 00:06:07,730 --> 00:06:06,000 telling and there's even been uh 154 00:06:09,710 --> 00:06:07,740 research done on this where sometimes we 155 00:06:12,350 --> 00:06:09,720 convince ourselves we make decisions 156 00:06:14,749 --> 00:06:12,360 based on rational you know yay or nay 157 00:06:16,670 --> 00:06:14,759 kind of points right but really what 158 00:06:18,290 --> 00:06:16,680 often happens more so and they see this 159 00:06:21,650 --> 00:06:18,300 in like different resonance in different 160 00:06:23,570 --> 00:06:21,660 parts of the body that you see signs 161 00:06:26,150 --> 00:06:23,580 that the decisions been made then after 162 00:06:28,249 --> 00:06:26,160 the fact like a millisecond later we 163 00:06:30,290 --> 00:06:28,259 start cognitively going because that's 164 00:06:32,450 --> 00:06:30,300 good and that's good in other words we 165 00:06:34,610 --> 00:06:32,460 justify it after the fact but we've made 166 00:06:36,650 --> 00:06:34,620 that gut decision already or we're we're 167 00:06:37,670 --> 00:06:36,660 in tune with it almost outside of time 168 00:06:40,490 --> 00:06:37,680 really 169 00:06:42,830 --> 00:06:40,500 so I set all that up to to bring up our 170 00:06:44,510 --> 00:06:42,840 scenario here where when you hear these 171 00:06:46,010 --> 00:06:44,520 stories right that don't have the end 172 00:06:50,029 --> 00:06:46,020 right they kind of just set it up and 173 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:50,039 say what could that be right then notice 174 00:06:54,469 --> 00:06:52,380 the response in yourself notice where 175 00:06:55,969 --> 00:06:54,479 you go right and that'll tell you as 176 00:06:58,070 --> 00:06:55,979 much about yourself or more about 177 00:06:59,570 --> 00:06:58,080 yourself often than what the actual 178 00:07:02,210 --> 00:06:59,580 matter that you're considering is and 179 00:07:03,409 --> 00:07:02,220 that's can be a very useful exercise to 180 00:07:04,850 --> 00:07:03,419 understand what's really going on with 181 00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:04,860 you and I've talked before on this show 182 00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:07,500 about energetic resonance and spiritual 183 00:07:11,270 --> 00:07:09,060 hygiene and being aware of your own 184 00:07:12,529 --> 00:07:11,280 energy so you can transmute it and when 185 00:07:14,210 --> 00:07:12,539 you're going into Altered States Of 186 00:07:16,370 --> 00:07:14,220 Consciousness and reaching out to other 187 00:07:18,230 --> 00:07:16,380 kind of beings you want to be aware of 188 00:07:21,050 --> 00:07:18,240 those things this is another practice 189 00:07:21,950 --> 00:07:21,060 you can use to begin to be in tune with 190 00:07:23,689 --> 00:07:21,960 that 191 00:07:26,330 --> 00:07:23,699 so yeah like you kind of set it up 192 00:07:28,430 --> 00:07:26,340 already the notion here was that um 193 00:07:30,290 --> 00:07:28,440 Thomas had 194 00:07:32,210 --> 00:07:30,300 drawn this picture of a gray alien 195 00:07:34,670 --> 00:07:32,220 basically a quintessential gray alien 196 00:07:37,550 --> 00:07:34,680 and then his girlfriend's father said 197 00:07:40,150 --> 00:07:37,560 yeah that looks like what my cousin saw 198 00:07:42,950 --> 00:07:40,160 uh behind you know the sort of glass 199 00:07:44,809 --> 00:07:42,960 partition at an Air Force Base and the 200 00:07:46,430 --> 00:07:44,819 thing was still alive but in the process 201 00:07:48,350 --> 00:07:46,440 of dying and they were trying to figure 202 00:07:50,390 --> 00:07:48,360 out where it was coming from and like 203 00:07:53,450 --> 00:07:50,400 you alluded to already 204 00:07:56,210 --> 00:07:53,460 this cousin had told I guess one too 205 00:07:58,249 --> 00:07:56,220 many people and ended up dying in a car 206 00:08:00,050 --> 00:07:58,259 accident which was kind of Nefarious 207 00:08:02,330 --> 00:08:00,060 because there wasn't many details to the 208 00:08:04,309 --> 00:08:02,340 car accident no one could find out who 209 00:08:05,689 --> 00:08:04,319 the actual other driver was they said 210 00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:05,699 they passed away as well but no one 211 00:08:08,689 --> 00:08:06,720 could find out who they were it wasn't 212 00:08:10,029 --> 00:08:08,699 in the newspaper article so there's some 213 00:08:13,370 --> 00:08:10,039 things that looked a bit questionable 214 00:08:15,950 --> 00:08:13,380 which led this cousin's family to 215 00:08:17,450 --> 00:08:15,960 believe that perhaps he'd been taken out 216 00:08:19,490 --> 00:08:17,460 basically because he knew too much and 217 00:08:20,689 --> 00:08:19,500 he was you know loose lips sink ships 218 00:08:22,610 --> 00:08:20,699 kind of thing 219 00:08:25,309 --> 00:08:22,620 but the interesting part like you 220 00:08:27,710 --> 00:08:25,319 pointed to was that it wasn't just the 221 00:08:29,689 --> 00:08:27,720 fact that there was a gray alien behind 222 00:08:32,389 --> 00:08:29,699 a glass partition at an Air Force Base 223 00:08:34,730 --> 00:08:32,399 in Michigan that was the gotcha it was 224 00:08:36,350 --> 00:08:34,740 something else that he knew that was too 225 00:08:38,449 --> 00:08:36,360 dangerous to know that ended up getting 226 00:08:40,010 --> 00:08:38,459 him killed and maybe he hadn't even told 227 00:08:42,350 --> 00:08:40,020 people that yet but just the fact that 228 00:08:44,149 --> 00:08:42,360 he knew it was too dangerous right is 229 00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:44,159 sort of the implication there 230 00:08:49,430 --> 00:08:46,140 and then the added really interesting 231 00:08:51,410 --> 00:08:49,440 implication or or Nuance is that so this 232 00:08:54,170 --> 00:08:51,420 father of this girlfriend of Thomas 233 00:08:55,850 --> 00:08:54,180 that's telling him this story says 234 00:08:58,190 --> 00:08:55,860 you know and I don't know that I could 235 00:09:00,889 --> 00:08:58,200 reveal that either even on my deathbed 236 00:09:03,170 --> 00:09:00,899 right which 237 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:03,180 that goes into new territory so right 238 00:09:07,610 --> 00:09:04,920 there notice your your own response 239 00:09:09,050 --> 00:09:07,620 where does your mind go right because 240 00:09:11,389 --> 00:09:09,060 clearly at that point it's not 241 00:09:13,790 --> 00:09:11,399 self-interest that's making him hold 242 00:09:15,829 --> 00:09:13,800 back from telling the truth right it's 243 00:09:18,050 --> 00:09:15,839 something else so then that raises 244 00:09:20,690 --> 00:09:18,060 questions like is she has he decided 245 00:09:22,610 --> 00:09:20,700 that that truth is so destabilizing that 246 00:09:24,110 --> 00:09:22,620 Society is better off not knowing is 247 00:09:26,269 --> 00:09:24,120 that what he's getting at what do you 248 00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:26,279 think when you hear that 249 00:09:29,930 --> 00:09:28,200 right I was trying to think of like uh 250 00:09:30,949 --> 00:09:29,940 putting myself in the shoes of folks 251 00:09:33,110 --> 00:09:30,959 that um 252 00:09:35,570 --> 00:09:33,120 maybe reacted to this I saw some 253 00:09:37,370 --> 00:09:35,580 reactions you know immediately go to the 254 00:09:39,350 --> 00:09:37,380 oh well they're definitely demons then 255 00:09:41,630 --> 00:09:39,360 uh or 256 00:09:44,570 --> 00:09:41,640 um another one that jumped to my mind is 257 00:09:46,490 --> 00:09:44,580 uh you know they're reptilians they just 258 00:09:47,750 --> 00:09:46,500 look like humans you know so they're in 259 00:09:50,570 --> 00:09:47,760 charge and there's nothing we can do 260 00:09:53,750 --> 00:09:50,580 about it right so there's no matter the 261 00:09:56,810 --> 00:09:53,760 scenario I think the natural response to 262 00:10:00,350 --> 00:09:56,820 what could be that bad is that the power 263 00:10:03,889 --> 00:10:00,360 Dynamic that we are used to uh in terms 264 00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:03,899 of our place in the world in society is 265 00:10:09,350 --> 00:10:06,899 not what we think it is and we are again 266 00:10:13,550 --> 00:10:09,360 we we have gotten the short end of that 267 00:10:15,170 --> 00:10:13,560 stick whatever it happens to be now I as 268 00:10:16,329 --> 00:10:15,180 I say all of that I also want to point 269 00:10:20,389 --> 00:10:16,339 out that 270 00:10:22,670 --> 00:10:20,399 we're in the west we live in a in a 271 00:10:24,769 --> 00:10:22,680 first world country we have a lot of 272 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:24,779 resources and great things so things 273 00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:28,140 that seem destabilizing to us uh it may 274 00:10:32,269 --> 00:10:30,240 not be even we're anywhere close to what 275 00:10:34,490 --> 00:10:32,279 would be stabilized destabilizing to 276 00:10:36,110 --> 00:10:34,500 those that aren't in you know kind of 277 00:10:38,690 --> 00:10:36,120 the conditions that we're accustomed to 278 00:10:40,610 --> 00:10:38,700 and I recognize the relative luxury that 279 00:10:44,690 --> 00:10:40,620 we have to be having this conversation 280 00:10:46,370 --> 00:10:44,700 over this technology and no one's you 281 00:10:49,069 --> 00:10:46,380 know preventing us from doing this and 282 00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:49,079 uh you know we have the internet freely 283 00:10:52,490 --> 00:10:50,640 flowing into our homes and we feel 284 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:52,500 pretty comfortable in the wintertime 285 00:10:56,569 --> 00:10:54,360 here just you know being in in the 286 00:11:00,170 --> 00:10:56,579 places that we live so there's a lot of 287 00:11:02,750 --> 00:11:00,180 comfort around our situation 288 00:11:04,730 --> 00:11:02,760 uh that I don't want uh that to go 289 00:11:07,069 --> 00:11:04,740 unnoticed because I think it does 290 00:11:09,530 --> 00:11:07,079 influence and paint the way in which we 291 00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:09,540 think about these scenarios 292 00:11:14,389 --> 00:11:12,720 um so yeah for me personally I I I have 293 00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:14,399 a lot of different ideas but I don't 294 00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:16,500 know none of them really land uh or 295 00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:19,740 resonate with me very very strongly 296 00:11:24,829 --> 00:11:22,200 um in part because I think I'm 297 00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:24,839 more comfortable with a variety of 298 00:11:28,310 --> 00:11:26,880 different things I'm also immediately 299 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:28,320 when I hear a story like that I'm like 300 00:11:33,410 --> 00:11:31,200 well it was destabilizing to those who 301 00:11:35,449 --> 00:11:33,420 were there it may not be destabilizing 302 00:11:38,569 --> 00:11:35,459 to me you know so and so who was there 303 00:11:41,269 --> 00:11:38,579 when when was this uh what kind of 304 00:11:43,850 --> 00:11:41,279 context and cultural backgrounds that 305 00:11:45,889 --> 00:11:43,860 these folks bring to that situation all 306 00:11:49,790 --> 00:11:45,899 of those things at least in my mind 307 00:11:52,250 --> 00:11:49,800 influence whatever uh you know dramatic 308 00:11:54,530 --> 00:11:52,260 Revelation it might be and it may change 309 00:11:56,690 --> 00:11:54,540 that because it's situated within that 310 00:11:59,690 --> 00:11:56,700 framework right absolutely I mean the 311 00:12:01,310 --> 00:11:59,700 the more set in your ways you are with 312 00:12:02,750 --> 00:12:01,320 your world view right with your 313 00:12:05,290 --> 00:12:02,760 perspective on reality 314 00:12:07,850 --> 00:12:05,300 then the more 315 00:12:09,530 --> 00:12:07,860 damaging at least initially you know 316 00:12:11,449 --> 00:12:09,540 energetically emotionally it may be to 317 00:12:13,490 --> 00:12:11,459 you to have that question 318 00:12:15,350 --> 00:12:13,500 whereas the more nuanced you are the 319 00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:15,360 more you can hold your worldview lightly 320 00:12:19,490 --> 00:12:18,000 maybe because as we've discussed before 321 00:12:21,050 --> 00:12:19,500 you've been through various iterations 322 00:12:23,210 --> 00:12:21,060 of World Views and so you don't hold any 323 00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:23,220 of them so tightly anymore because you 324 00:12:28,490 --> 00:12:25,440 know you're likely to evolve yet again I 325 00:12:30,889 --> 00:12:28,500 think for people like that uh 326 00:12:34,150 --> 00:12:30,899 any kind of Revelation is not nearly as 327 00:12:36,530 --> 00:12:34,160 destabilizing at least in in potentia 328 00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,540 and I think back to when you know of 329 00:12:40,970 --> 00:12:38,160 course like you already hinted at the 330 00:12:42,889 --> 00:12:40,980 the famous situation where you know 331 00:12:45,350 --> 00:12:42,899 Luella zondo talked about something 332 00:12:47,870 --> 00:12:45,360 being sobering or somber 333 00:12:49,490 --> 00:12:47,880 and it was an interesting sociological 334 00:12:52,009 --> 00:12:49,500 experiment just to see where people 335 00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:52,019 leapt to from there right like oh well 336 00:12:55,009 --> 00:12:53,279 clearly he's saying this I mean 337 00:12:56,449 --> 00:12:55,019 writing's on the wall and I'm like 338 00:12:59,269 --> 00:12:56,459 really I mean that's just an adjective 339 00:13:02,030 --> 00:12:59,279 that's that's a big leap to make and and 340 00:13:04,730 --> 00:13:02,040 secondly to your point it's like I don't 341 00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:04,740 want to rely on someone else's adjective 342 00:13:08,290 --> 00:13:06,959 based on their worldview their life 343 00:13:12,170 --> 00:13:08,300 experience 344 00:13:14,930 --> 00:13:12,180 their position of privilege you know uh 345 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:14,940 I want to have the data because how that 346 00:13:19,310 --> 00:13:16,860 data impacts people will vary depending 347 00:13:20,870 --> 00:13:19,320 on the position they're in and like we 348 00:13:22,250 --> 00:13:20,880 talked about how you know how much 349 00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,260 they're into certitude with their 350 00:13:27,050 --> 00:13:23,839 worldview and whatnot 351 00:13:29,030 --> 00:13:27,060 but it's it's definitely interesting I 352 00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:29,040 think more interesting actually to sit 353 00:13:35,449 --> 00:13:31,440 back and watch where people go with that 354 00:13:37,850 --> 00:13:35,459 than than the actual event itself 355 00:13:39,949 --> 00:13:37,860 yeah other things come to mind where 356 00:13:42,110 --> 00:13:39,959 it's like the uh the Advent of the 357 00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:42,120 printing press and uh people are like I 358 00:13:45,949 --> 00:13:44,100 can't believe people are gonna you know 359 00:13:47,629 --> 00:13:45,959 start reading and that's just gonna 360 00:13:49,730 --> 00:13:47,639 change everything and it's gonna be so 361 00:13:51,949 --> 00:13:49,740 bad and you know here we are thinking 362 00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:51,959 you know it's a dramatically wonderful 363 00:13:56,569 --> 00:13:54,959 Revolution that took place uh and we can 364 00:13:59,449 --> 00:13:56,579 point to a lot of other examples a lot 365 00:14:00,590 --> 00:13:59,459 like that uh you know segregation there 366 00:14:02,569 --> 00:14:00,600 are plenty of people who thought that 367 00:14:05,269 --> 00:14:02,579 was going to be awful and unnatural and 368 00:14:07,670 --> 00:14:05,279 you know somber oh you know God forbid 369 00:14:09,470 --> 00:14:07,680 you know we treat everybody equally 370 00:14:11,449 --> 00:14:09,480 um and we and most of us I'm not going 371 00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:11,459 to say all of us because the world is so 372 00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:13,320 full of uh some pretty bigoted racist 373 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:15,779 people but most of us uh look at that 374 00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:18,380 and think how absolutely horrid that was 375 00:14:24,410 --> 00:14:21,720 and so you know one person somber is 376 00:14:26,930 --> 00:14:24,420 another person's you know great 377 00:14:29,690 --> 00:14:26,940 fantastic thank goodness why is it 378 00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:29,700 taking so long and so you know I want 379 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:31,740 folks to keep that in mind because uh 380 00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:33,899 it's impossible for us without knowing 381 00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:36,300 exactly what it is to really interpret 382 00:14:41,629 --> 00:14:39,000 what that means uh you know so somber 383 00:14:44,329 --> 00:14:41,639 we're all internalizing that uh somber 384 00:14:46,009 --> 00:14:44,339 for me is such and such we could be 385 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,019 completely detached from reality of what 386 00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:48,480 whatever that fact happens to be and it 387 00:14:51,889 --> 00:14:49,920 could end up being something great right 388 00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:51,899 or it could be something that's great to 389 00:14:56,030 --> 00:14:53,639 one person and not great to someone else 390 00:14:57,829 --> 00:14:56,040 so so let's throw out a few uh just for 391 00:15:00,230 --> 00:14:57,839 the sake of argument here 392 00:15:02,870 --> 00:15:00,240 um some that I've come across 393 00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:02,880 that I've even you know seen some pretty 394 00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:04,620 compelling evidence 395 00:15:08,990 --> 00:15:07,199 uh pointing in this direction 396 00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:09,000 one of them is that 397 00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:10,560 um some of these alien beings that have 398 00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:12,240 been captured whether we're talking 399 00:15:16,189 --> 00:15:14,820 about Roswell or even post Roswell that 400 00:15:19,189 --> 00:15:16,199 one of the big 401 00:15:21,949 --> 00:15:19,199 um aha moments that was shocking when 402 00:15:24,470 --> 00:15:21,959 the autopsies were done was that there 403 00:15:28,250 --> 00:15:24,480 was basically DNA in common between 404 00:15:31,129 --> 00:15:28,260 these gray aliens and human beings so 405 00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:31,139 let's take that first how do you think 406 00:15:36,410 --> 00:15:33,120 that would that would hit the masses if 407 00:15:37,750 --> 00:15:36,420 that was released to the public 408 00:15:41,210 --> 00:15:37,760 right 409 00:15:44,030 --> 00:15:41,220 that's a good one I think folks uh would 410 00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:44,040 absolutely be stunned by that uh at 411 00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:46,500 least most of the world would be 412 00:15:50,449 --> 00:15:47,160 um 413 00:15:53,569 --> 00:15:50,459 I think others would be willing to 414 00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:53,579 accept that there is a sort of a shared 415 00:15:58,550 --> 00:15:56,880 lineage genetic shared traits uh you 416 00:16:02,269 --> 00:15:58,560 know but then the questions certainly 417 00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:02,279 flow are we descendants are we relatives 418 00:16:06,590 --> 00:16:04,500 are we an experiment are we hybrids you 419 00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:06,600 know what what what are the what is the 420 00:16:09,889 --> 00:16:08,339 nature of our relationship to these 421 00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:09,899 beings 422 00:16:15,590 --> 00:16:12,480 um so there are certainly 423 00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:15,600 uh no end of questions and and no easy 424 00:16:20,569 --> 00:16:18,300 answers to those but I think to a large 425 00:16:23,389 --> 00:16:20,579 number of individuals yes it would be 426 00:16:25,970 --> 00:16:23,399 you know quite disturbing 427 00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:25,980 um at the same time I can remember 428 00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:29,160 when I listened to the audiobook 429 00:16:35,569 --> 00:16:33,060 uh sapiens uh youveld or Harare I want 430 00:16:37,610 --> 00:16:35,579 to mispronounce his name but you know 431 00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,620 just listening to the the story of human 432 00:16:41,569 --> 00:16:39,120 history and how there were multiple 433 00:16:43,370 --> 00:16:41,579 human species occupying the planet at 434 00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:43,380 the same time that's something I had 435 00:16:47,389 --> 00:16:46,320 learned you know in grade school but for 436 00:16:49,189 --> 00:16:47,399 some reason just never really 437 00:16:50,569 --> 00:16:49,199 internalized it all that well when you 438 00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:50,579 hear someone really kind of talk through 439 00:16:54,769 --> 00:16:52,800 all of that that we're you know kind of 440 00:16:59,210 --> 00:16:54,779 rubbing elbows with different human 441 00:17:01,430 --> 00:16:59,220 species uh that you know it's it's 442 00:17:04,370 --> 00:17:01,440 pretty a pretty alien kind of foreign 443 00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:04,380 concept to us today where we all are you 444 00:17:08,949 --> 00:17:06,240 know Homo sapiens sapiens so it's uh 445 00:17:12,530 --> 00:17:08,959 it's I think that that might be a good 446 00:17:14,750 --> 00:17:12,540 corollary thought experiment to getting 447 00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:14,760 more comfortable with that kind of 448 00:17:19,250 --> 00:17:17,400 Revelation right and I think about on 449 00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:19,260 previous POC episodes when I've talked 450 00:17:21,770 --> 00:17:20,160 about 451 00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:21,780 whether it's 452 00:17:26,689 --> 00:17:24,720 um you know Hardline religious 453 00:17:28,909 --> 00:17:26,699 fundamentalists you know whether Islamic 454 00:17:30,409 --> 00:17:28,919 or Christian or whatever uh the 455 00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:30,419 particular brand doesn't really matter 456 00:17:35,270 --> 00:17:31,860 so much as the developmental level 457 00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,280 because if you believe that there's a 458 00:17:39,230 --> 00:17:37,380 place in the cosmos for Mortal beings 459 00:17:41,570 --> 00:17:39,240 that are intelligent meaning us human 460 00:17:44,150 --> 00:17:41,580 beings and all you have on top of that 461 00:17:46,490 --> 00:17:44,160 is the kind of lesser intelligent 462 00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:46,500 animals which don't really count in that 463 00:17:51,890 --> 00:17:49,320 perspective in terms of you know being 464 00:17:53,870 --> 00:17:51,900 viewed as intelligent sentient beings in 465 00:17:55,490 --> 00:17:53,880 the same way that humans are and after 466 00:17:58,490 --> 00:17:55,500 that you basically have spiritual 467 00:18:00,770 --> 00:17:58,500 entities like demons and angels right so 468 00:18:03,190 --> 00:18:00,780 for those kind of people 469 00:18:06,770 --> 00:18:03,200 you think back to how 470 00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:06,780 the Revelation that Evolution was real 471 00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:08,820 was was shocking to these people right 472 00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:10,799 and to this day there's some people who 473 00:18:14,810 --> 00:18:13,620 like stand by a Six-Day creation you 474 00:18:17,930 --> 00:18:14,820 know 475 00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:17,940 uh women came from literally the rib of 476 00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:19,620 a man you know and that's how that all 477 00:18:23,690 --> 00:18:21,900 happens gonna on the Fly hey this is not 478 00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:23,700 so good let's grab a rib and let's make 479 00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:26,400 this happen right and and some people 480 00:18:31,789 --> 00:18:28,460 really take that as the literal truth 481 00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:31,799 and would balk at the idea that we have 482 00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,200 any kind of uh shared heritage 483 00:18:38,330 --> 00:18:36,720 you know genetically with you know any 484 00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:38,340 kind of apes or chimpanzees or whatever 485 00:18:43,310 --> 00:18:40,380 right that some people I remember one 486 00:18:45,529 --> 00:18:43,320 time seeing this this documentary where 487 00:18:47,570 --> 00:18:45,539 this daughter who was now in her early 488 00:18:49,909 --> 00:18:47,580 20s who had been raised as a 489 00:18:51,650 --> 00:18:49,919 fundamentalist Christian had come to see 490 00:18:54,470 --> 00:18:51,660 that Evolution was depicting something 491 00:18:56,630 --> 00:18:54,480 real right and I remember her dad saying 492 00:18:58,909 --> 00:18:56,640 you think we come from monkeys like he 493 00:19:01,130 --> 00:18:58,919 he was just so adamant like how could 494 00:19:03,710 --> 00:19:01,140 you possibly believe such a thing 495 00:19:06,230 --> 00:19:03,720 and it was almost more like um I'm too 496 00:19:08,270 --> 00:19:06,240 high and mighty you know I'm I'm royalty 497 00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:08,280 you know how dare you say I come from 498 00:19:12,590 --> 00:19:09,960 the commoners known as the chimpanzees 499 00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:12,600 almost like that kind of notion rather 500 00:19:16,909 --> 00:19:14,960 than seeing this this uh beautiful 501 00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:16,919 Transcendence that happens over time 502 00:19:21,890 --> 00:19:19,380 amongst the created order right 503 00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:21,900 um so yeah I think for those people 504 00:19:27,169 --> 00:19:25,380 again with these hard-line distinctions 505 00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:27,179 it's one thing if you have have human 506 00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,500 beings right 507 00:19:32,270 --> 00:19:29,760 sure maybe there's some Neanderthal 508 00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:32,280 mixed in right but but the idea that 509 00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:33,960 there's beings from other planets that 510 00:19:39,409 --> 00:19:36,720 have our DNA 511 00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:39,419 then that not only challenges your sense 512 00:19:43,490 --> 00:19:41,280 of your heritage but it challenges your 513 00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:43,500 sense of cosmology right it challenges 514 00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:45,840 your sense of the Ultimate Reality right 515 00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:48,240 and and how how can this be the case 516 00:19:53,870 --> 00:19:51,120 that these beings exist when I don't see 517 00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:53,880 them attested to you know on a 518 00:19:58,310 --> 00:19:55,679 superficial level in my biblical text or 519 00:19:59,870 --> 00:19:58,320 whatever you know it it raises all sorts 520 00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,880 of questions which again brings us back 521 00:20:04,970 --> 00:20:01,919 to that notion we've talked about many 522 00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,980 times which is that disclosure is very 523 00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:07,200 complicated because people are coming at 524 00:20:10,070 --> 00:20:08,700 that topic from very different World 525 00:20:11,930 --> 00:20:10,080 Views 526 00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:11,940 mm-hmm 527 00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:15,919 when your world is made to be or to feel 528 00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:18,299 ontologically tiny 529 00:20:24,289 --> 00:20:21,600 that's where the destabilization begins 530 00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:24,299 right so I think that that's what 531 00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:26,400 happens here is you've got a situation 532 00:20:31,370 --> 00:20:28,919 where uh everything that you thought 533 00:20:34,909 --> 00:20:31,380 that you knew about the order of things 534 00:20:36,890 --> 00:20:34,919 and reality itself and the things which 535 00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:36,900 really quite frankly we go throughout 536 00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:38,400 our day-to-day routines not even 537 00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:40,440 thinking much about 538 00:20:47,510 --> 00:20:43,280 but they become front and center 539 00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:47,520 concerns for how we order our world 540 00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:50,280 and they are screaming at us from the 541 00:20:56,570 --> 00:20:51,960 stage saying you've got all of this 542 00:20:58,909 --> 00:20:56,580 wrong and that has a ripple effect a 543 00:21:02,510 --> 00:20:58,919 downstream effect on every other thing 544 00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:02,520 that we do and I think it's easy to see 545 00:21:06,409 --> 00:21:04,500 how something that 546 00:21:09,289 --> 00:21:06,419 uh 547 00:21:12,710 --> 00:21:09,299 seemingly benign like that this you know 548 00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:12,720 DNA Heritage being maybe this the same 549 00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:14,880 you know could be incredibly 550 00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:17,580 destabilizing and and and and quite 551 00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:19,620 frankly possibly dangerous you know for 552 00:21:23,690 --> 00:21:21,840 most of the world because you've got a 553 00:21:25,630 --> 00:21:23,700 uh you know how many people are there 554 00:21:28,490 --> 00:21:25,640 now eight billion eight billion people 555 00:21:30,590 --> 00:21:28,500 uh the majority of whom might all of a 556 00:21:32,870 --> 00:21:30,600 sudden wake up the next day and question 557 00:21:34,789 --> 00:21:32,880 their life choices and everything that 558 00:21:36,830 --> 00:21:34,799 they're they're doing and the way their 559 00:21:39,169 --> 00:21:36,840 society is structured and the way their 560 00:21:40,750 --> 00:21:39,179 their family operates and I mean all of 561 00:21:43,669 --> 00:21:40,760 these things could come under the 562 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:43,679 microscope of re-examination and they 563 00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:46,080 could be thrown out the window 564 00:21:51,110 --> 00:21:48,960 um so it's uh it's it's a lot to 565 00:21:52,850 --> 00:21:51,120 consider and I think if you're 566 00:21:54,770 --> 00:21:52,860 and I will talk about this in more 567 00:21:57,890 --> 00:21:54,780 detail but if you're those decision 568 00:21:59,810 --> 00:21:57,900 makers who can kind of keep that 569 00:22:02,450 --> 00:21:59,820 knowledge inside the box as opposed to 570 00:22:04,970 --> 00:22:02,460 letting it out the door uh I I can 571 00:22:07,070 --> 00:22:04,980 easily see why you just you know keep it 572 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:07,080 in the Box in the vault and and go about 573 00:22:10,130 --> 00:22:08,100 your day 574 00:22:12,529 --> 00:22:10,140 yeah I think you know there's this 575 00:22:14,510 --> 00:22:12,539 expression Kick the Can down the road 576 00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:14,520 and I think that one of the things 577 00:22:19,549 --> 00:22:16,440 that's very evident about our political 578 00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,559 culture is that you know because of you 579 00:22:23,210 --> 00:22:21,840 know the uh the interval between 580 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:23,220 elections 581 00:22:26,930 --> 00:22:25,020 um in our country 582 00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:26,940 people tend to think in two year or 583 00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:28,860 four-year terms and maybe eight year 584 00:22:31,789 --> 00:22:30,539 terms and that's about it unless you're 585 00:22:33,950 --> 00:22:31,799 a Supreme Court Justice or something 586 00:22:36,470 --> 00:22:33,960 there for life 587 00:22:39,470 --> 00:22:36,480 um so 588 00:22:40,130 --> 00:22:39,480 built into our very system is 589 00:22:41,750 --> 00:22:40,140 um 590 00:22:43,850 --> 00:22:41,760 a lack of 591 00:22:46,669 --> 00:22:43,860 the distant view you know and it's not 592 00:22:49,970 --> 00:22:46,679 even really part of our cultural milieu 593 00:22:51,409 --> 00:22:49,980 to make decisions based on what's the 594 00:22:53,450 --> 00:22:51,419 best interest of our grandchildren for 595 00:22:54,649 --> 00:22:53,460 instance right 596 00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:54,659 um 597 00:22:59,930 --> 00:22:57,840 so you could see how in that kind of 598 00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,940 culture that already exists 599 00:23:03,890 --> 00:23:01,919 when there's so many question marks 600 00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:03,900 could things go well maybe but there's 601 00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:05,100 also a chance it could be incredibly 602 00:23:10,130 --> 00:23:07,440 destabilizing and frankly that just 603 00:23:11,810 --> 00:23:10,140 makes my job harder so let the next 604 00:23:13,549 --> 00:23:11,820 elected official four years down the 605 00:23:16,549 --> 00:23:13,559 road make that decision you know there's 606 00:23:18,350 --> 00:23:16,559 no reason I have to make it now right 607 00:23:20,090 --> 00:23:18,360 um in other words 608 00:23:22,010 --> 00:23:20,100 I think part of the challenge with that 609 00:23:25,190 --> 00:23:22,020 kind of thinking that kind of mindset is 610 00:23:29,690 --> 00:23:25,200 sometimes there is short-term pain 611 00:23:31,310 --> 00:23:29,700 in in service of long-term gain and the 612 00:23:32,990 --> 00:23:31,320 problem is the way our very system is 613 00:23:35,210 --> 00:23:33,000 set up very very few people are asking 614 00:23:37,430 --> 00:23:35,220 those questions 615 00:23:39,289 --> 00:23:37,440 um and that 616 00:23:41,450 --> 00:23:39,299 in the long term might prevent us from 617 00:23:43,070 --> 00:23:41,460 actually making systemic changes which 618 00:23:46,070 --> 00:23:43,080 are very destabilizing potentially in 619 00:23:48,710 --> 00:23:46,080 the short term but make our society much 620 00:23:53,029 --> 00:23:48,720 much more cohesive coherent and 621 00:23:56,390 --> 00:23:54,950 right and we have not cultivated that 622 00:23:58,610 --> 00:23:56,400 kind of thinking 623 00:24:00,890 --> 00:23:58,620 um at least at least we haven't in the 624 00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:00,900 west I think uh China I've read 625 00:24:04,909 --> 00:24:02,880 somewhere you know their way of thinking 626 00:24:07,250 --> 00:24:04,919 is generally in the hundreds of years 627 00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,260 you know ours isn't like you mentioned 628 00:24:11,630 --> 00:24:09,360 really kind of political Cycles which 629 00:24:13,789 --> 00:24:11,640 are quite quite small 630 00:24:16,370 --> 00:24:13,799 um so that that's certainly one aspect 631 00:24:19,490 --> 00:24:16,380 of it I mean what would be another uh 632 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:19,500 potential Revelation from that story 633 00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:21,659 that that comes to mind for you that 634 00:24:26,149 --> 00:24:23,700 could be terribly destabilizing well 635 00:24:27,770 --> 00:24:26,159 this is one that I've heard I don't find 636 00:24:30,289 --> 00:24:27,780 it very compelling at all but I hear it 637 00:24:31,610 --> 00:24:30,299 raised a lot and again from my 638 00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:31,620 perspective I find it more interesting 639 00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:33,240 in terms of what that's saying about the 640 00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:35,520 people who are raising this then the 641 00:24:38,750 --> 00:24:36,780 possibility of it actually being true 642 00:24:40,310 --> 00:24:38,760 but that is the notion that this is 643 00:24:43,130 --> 00:24:40,320 actually a prison planet you know that 644 00:24:44,810 --> 00:24:43,140 we're basically cattle for some of these 645 00:24:46,850 --> 00:24:44,820 beings 646 00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:46,860 um and that this is what 647 00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:49,559 maybe this conceited gray alien said on 648 00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:51,360 its death bed was ah listen this is who 649 00:24:54,649 --> 00:24:53,039 you are to us and who do you think you 650 00:24:57,169 --> 00:24:54,659 are to keep me like this you know or 651 00:24:59,750 --> 00:24:57,179 whatever you know I mean uh that's 652 00:25:01,250 --> 00:24:59,760 another one people leap to is um what if 653 00:25:03,770 --> 00:25:01,260 we're not King of the castle you know 654 00:25:05,870 --> 00:25:03,780 we're not top of the food chain what if 655 00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:05,880 we've been deluded all this time into 656 00:25:10,669 --> 00:25:07,919 believing that 657 00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:10,679 um I mean I I think there's all sorts of 658 00:25:16,610 --> 00:25:13,440 reasons on the face of it why that's not 659 00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:16,620 the correct answer in my perspective 660 00:25:20,810 --> 00:25:18,539 um 661 00:25:21,649 --> 00:25:20,820 I think it it what's more interesting is 662 00:25:24,049 --> 00:25:21,659 how 663 00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:24,059 our Collective unconscious and sometimes 664 00:25:28,490 --> 00:25:26,340 our personal unconscious will fill in 665 00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,500 the gaps right with our own fears and 666 00:25:32,990 --> 00:25:30,720 I've said this before I think the the 667 00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:33,000 fact that we have this shared memory of 668 00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:35,760 like you talked about in previous 669 00:25:40,669 --> 00:25:37,919 generations keeping slaves you know 670 00:25:43,610 --> 00:25:40,679 actually saying that certain types of 671 00:25:46,430 --> 00:25:43,620 homo sapiens sapiens you will serve this 672 00:25:49,130 --> 00:25:46,440 other group or now I think about how we 673 00:25:51,649 --> 00:25:49,140 you know have these Mass Farms where we 674 00:25:52,610 --> 00:25:51,659 put chickens in these tiny little you 675 00:25:54,350 --> 00:25:52,620 know 676 00:25:56,750 --> 00:25:54,360 containers they hardly ever see the 677 00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:56,760 light and we just you know have made a 678 00:26:00,169 --> 00:25:58,980 science out of butchering you know 679 00:26:01,669 --> 00:26:00,179 hundreds of thousands a day or whatever 680 00:26:03,169 --> 00:26:01,679 it is I don't really know the details 681 00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,179 I'm a vegetarian so I try not to be 682 00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:05,520 aware but something like that right uh 683 00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,919 so we have that in our memory so it's 684 00:26:11,390 --> 00:26:09,840 not hard for us to go oh what if the 685 00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:11,400 shoe was on the other foot you know what 686 00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:13,740 if suddenly you you look at the whole 687 00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:16,860 thing very differently when you go would 688 00:26:21,470 --> 00:26:19,500 I be okay with this if I could be the 689 00:26:23,149 --> 00:26:21,480 one that was a step down in the food 690 00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:23,159 chain what would that mean and again I 691 00:26:27,289 --> 00:26:24,840 think that that says something more 692 00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:27,299 interesting about us and how we make 693 00:26:31,730 --> 00:26:29,520 decisions and and what we're cognizant 694 00:26:35,169 --> 00:26:31,740 of than it does about what this actually 695 00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:35,179 what this Revelation actually is 696 00:26:40,010 --> 00:26:37,440 yeah completely 697 00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:40,020 um nobody likes the idea of being a 698 00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,140 prisoner uh to having their ability and 699 00:26:48,230 --> 00:26:45,120 their freedom and their their way of 700 00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:48,240 life constricted But the irony is that 701 00:26:54,289 --> 00:26:51,120 we already live in very constricted ways 702 00:26:57,710 --> 00:26:54,299 whether that be uh just the ways our 703 00:27:00,289 --> 00:26:57,720 society happened to be structured or the 704 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:00,299 ways in which we think and how much 705 00:27:05,830 --> 00:27:03,720 ideas constrain uh who we are and and 706 00:27:09,049 --> 00:27:05,840 limit what we choose to do 707 00:27:11,510 --> 00:27:09,059 so I know that's very you know 708 00:27:13,669 --> 00:27:11,520 philosophical I guess and people kind of 709 00:27:15,289 --> 00:27:13,679 you know can poo poo that a little bit 710 00:27:17,029 --> 00:27:15,299 but you know certainly our idea is 711 00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:17,039 absolutely frame the way in which we 712 00:27:19,730 --> 00:27:18,960 think about the world 713 00:27:22,190 --> 00:27:19,740 um 714 00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:22,200 so yeah that idea doesn't resonate too 715 00:27:27,169 --> 00:27:24,299 much with me either 716 00:27:29,930 --> 00:27:27,179 um the the prison planet notion 717 00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:29,940 um mainly because I think I take a 718 00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:33,179 a big review of the situation 719 00:27:39,230 --> 00:27:36,900 um you know there's uh 720 00:27:41,690 --> 00:27:39,240 I guess uh I think of it as like there's 721 00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:41,700 a ladder of life right and and you know 722 00:27:47,169 --> 00:27:44,460 we're all kind of a part of that chain 723 00:27:50,210 --> 00:27:47,179 of being in a way and uh if something 724 00:27:51,769 --> 00:27:50,220 were to actually feed off of us just 725 00:27:54,110 --> 00:27:51,779 like we may feed off of other things 726 00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:54,120 like that's a part of the chain of being 727 00:27:59,149 --> 00:27:56,880 and there's a grander story at play 728 00:28:02,029 --> 00:27:59,159 there than than maybe what happens in 729 00:28:03,230 --> 00:28:02,039 those individual interactions 730 00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:03,240 um well you make you make a really great 731 00:28:07,730 --> 00:28:05,700 point there and let me let me make a 732 00:28:09,350 --> 00:28:07,740 segue here on that so 733 00:28:10,970 --> 00:28:09,360 I think when people think about Prison 734 00:28:13,549 --> 00:28:10,980 Planet they have a very particular 735 00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:13,559 notion right they they I don't know what 736 00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:15,240 they imagine like they're gonna suddenly 737 00:28:18,649 --> 00:28:17,520 land and craft and make us mine gold for 738 00:28:19,549 --> 00:28:18,659 the rest of our lives or something I 739 00:28:22,010 --> 00:28:19,559 don't know what they're thinking right 740 00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:22,020 but something very sort of like literal 741 00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:26,159 and physical and you know something uh 742 00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:28,260 akin to us keeping cattle in a field 743 00:28:31,370 --> 00:28:29,520 right 744 00:28:33,049 --> 00:28:31,380 um that we these cattle maybe think that 745 00:28:35,269 --> 00:28:33,059 they're free and having a good life but 746 00:28:38,090 --> 00:28:35,279 they're actually serving us 747 00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:38,100 now while I think that kind of sort of 748 00:28:44,029 --> 00:28:41,760 literal view is is mistaken I I do think 749 00:28:45,409 --> 00:28:44,039 and I've talked to you about this and we 750 00:28:47,330 --> 00:28:45,419 probably mentioned it to some degree on 751 00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:47,340 this podcast and I've mentioned it to 752 00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:48,960 some degree on POC 753 00:28:52,610 --> 00:28:51,000 the fact that there is an energetic 754 00:28:54,110 --> 00:28:52,620 exchange between different dimensions 755 00:28:59,029 --> 00:28:54,120 and 756 00:29:01,430 --> 00:28:59,039 to imagine because as you kind of just 757 00:29:04,310 --> 00:29:01,440 alluded to we can have relationships 758 00:29:07,370 --> 00:29:04,320 with bacteria in our gut right and 759 00:29:09,529 --> 00:29:07,380 there's all these alien intelligences in 760 00:29:11,690 --> 00:29:09,539 a way living inside of us already we are 761 00:29:15,230 --> 00:29:11,700 already our hybrid being we already are 762 00:29:17,930 --> 00:29:15,240 like this uh kind of synergistic 763 00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:17,940 um symbiotic environment for all these 764 00:29:22,430 --> 00:29:18,720 different 765 00:29:23,690 --> 00:29:22,440 uh kind of life forms and eventually to 766 00:29:27,529 --> 00:29:23,700 kind of work out an arrangement that's 767 00:29:29,090 --> 00:29:27,539 beneficial to both hence symbiosis so I 768 00:29:30,590 --> 00:29:29,100 think something like that is definitely 769 00:29:31,490 --> 00:29:30,600 going on 770 00:29:33,169 --> 00:29:31,500 um 771 00:29:34,310 --> 00:29:33,179 and that would be shocking to some 772 00:29:36,649 --> 00:29:34,320 people but I just don't think it's on 773 00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,659 this literal physical level 774 00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:38,039 um 775 00:29:43,010 --> 00:29:40,260 but but nevertheless it's again it's 776 00:29:45,169 --> 00:29:43,020 just interesting that people go there 777 00:29:48,710 --> 00:29:45,179 yeah 778 00:29:49,730 --> 00:29:48,720 um well to me the the this highlights 779 00:29:53,450 --> 00:29:49,740 the 780 00:29:55,789 --> 00:29:53,460 uh interplay between those who are close 781 00:29:58,490 --> 00:29:55,799 to the information those who aren't 782 00:30:01,250 --> 00:29:58,500 close to the information and even those 783 00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:01,260 in that inner circle how there very well 784 00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:04,200 could be differences of opinion uh on 785 00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,600 what might be going on 786 00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:08,399 um you know specifically too with this 787 00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:10,320 individual that you know kind of spilled 788 00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:13,200 the beans about what they saw I mean yes 789 00:30:18,769 --> 00:30:16,559 it sounded very profound or impactful 790 00:30:21,710 --> 00:30:18,779 but not so much that they didn't feel 791 00:30:25,070 --> 00:30:21,720 constrained in telling at least one 792 00:30:27,169 --> 00:30:25,080 close family member if not other people 793 00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:27,179 um so it you know that gives you a 794 00:30:33,289 --> 00:30:28,620 little peek I think behind the curtain 795 00:30:35,930 --> 00:30:33,299 of the way in which these uh situations 796 00:30:38,210 --> 00:30:35,940 or these this kind of knowledge is 797 00:30:40,970 --> 00:30:38,220 interpreted by those who are closest to 798 00:30:44,810 --> 00:30:40,980 it and how they choose to wield that 799 00:30:48,049 --> 00:30:44,820 knowledge for their benefit uh or or at 800 00:30:50,210 --> 00:30:48,059 the at the expense of our ignorance of 801 00:30:52,250 --> 00:30:50,220 it and so you know do you think that 802 00:30:54,430 --> 00:30:52,260 also kind of hinted the the battles that 803 00:30:57,710 --> 00:30:54,440 are happening behind the scenes between 804 00:30:59,330 --> 00:30:57,720 you know those in power that we we hear 805 00:31:01,909 --> 00:30:59,340 this all the time right there are some 806 00:31:03,710 --> 00:31:01,919 who uh are in favor of kind of getting 807 00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:03,720 this information out there are some that 808 00:31:07,789 --> 00:31:06,000 don't want that information out there 809 00:31:11,330 --> 00:31:07,799 are debates about whether one is right 810 00:31:13,130 --> 00:31:11,340 one is wrong uh you know as if we might 811 00:31:14,330 --> 00:31:13,140 be able to even if it came out as we 812 00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:14,340 might be able to say oh well you know 813 00:31:18,769 --> 00:31:16,260 see we were right all along that was the 814 00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:18,779 right thing to do I mean it assumes that 815 00:31:23,690 --> 00:31:21,360 we we might even have any idea what it 816 00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:23,700 actually is but uh you know what what's 817 00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,919 your sense of what's happening there and 818 00:31:30,110 --> 00:31:27,360 what do you think is important for us to 819 00:31:32,810 --> 00:31:30,120 keep in mind as we you know kind of hold 820 00:31:34,610 --> 00:31:32,820 our expectations uh in the balance here 821 00:31:35,870 --> 00:31:34,620 what might be coming out yeah that's a 822 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:35,880 great question and we can probably go 823 00:31:38,690 --> 00:31:37,260 back and forth on this because I think 824 00:31:39,409 --> 00:31:38,700 there's numerous variables to think 825 00:31:41,510 --> 00:31:39,419 about 826 00:31:43,070 --> 00:31:41,520 one you kind of hinted at there so I'll 827 00:31:44,510 --> 00:31:43,080 start there 828 00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:44,520 even though you could kind of end there 829 00:31:54,830 --> 00:31:50,389 one thing the public seems to assume a 830 00:31:59,810 --> 00:31:57,950 what the secret keepers have is to 831 00:32:02,510 --> 00:31:59,820 coherent understanding of what this is 832 00:32:03,830 --> 00:32:02,520 right and so they're frustrated why 833 00:32:06,350 --> 00:32:03,840 won't you just let it out you know like 834 00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,360 how is it fair that you know it and we 835 00:32:11,149 --> 00:32:08,399 don't and maybe what they're thinking on 836 00:32:13,789 --> 00:32:11,159 the inside is we may have some data we 837 00:32:15,529 --> 00:32:13,799 might have a lot of data but that isn't 838 00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:15,539 necessarily we have a have mean we have 839 00:32:20,450 --> 00:32:17,340 a coherent understanding of what this is 840 00:32:22,850 --> 00:32:20,460 what it means for reality nor does it 841 00:32:24,830 --> 00:32:22,860 mean we have a you know unanimous 842 00:32:26,810 --> 00:32:24,840 decision around what it means in fact I 843 00:32:28,430 --> 00:32:26,820 think part of the infighting that's 844 00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:28,440 going on that 845 00:32:31,789 --> 00:32:30,600 creates this kind of situation where we 846 00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:31,799 get a sense that things are about to 847 00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:33,059 break and then they don't you know we've 848 00:32:35,630 --> 00:32:34,320 had this big long delay with this 849 00:32:37,669 --> 00:32:35,640 government report 850 00:32:39,950 --> 00:32:37,679 I think that points to the battles going 851 00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:39,960 on behind the scenes and it's not just 852 00:32:42,590 --> 00:32:40,860 about 853 00:32:44,690 --> 00:32:42,600 those who want to keep the secret and 854 00:32:46,909 --> 00:32:44,700 those who want to get it out is also 855 00:32:49,850 --> 00:32:46,919 everything in between you know like some 856 00:32:51,049 --> 00:32:49,860 people are convinced it's bad news it's 857 00:32:52,610 --> 00:32:51,059 demons right we've talked about this 858 00:32:56,690 --> 00:32:52,620 before the Collins Elite kind of notion 859 00:32:59,690 --> 00:32:56,700 that to even acknowledge it and publicly 860 00:33:01,190 --> 00:32:59,700 announce it gives it a foothold and a 861 00:33:04,130 --> 00:33:01,200 reality that could mean our 862 00:33:05,510 --> 00:33:04,140 civilization's demise right uh other 863 00:33:07,730 --> 00:33:05,520 people who say 864 00:33:10,730 --> 00:33:07,740 it's you one thing a government should 865 00:33:12,710 --> 00:33:10,740 never do is announce something as real 866 00:33:14,149 --> 00:33:12,720 and then have no solution for how to 867 00:33:16,850 --> 00:33:14,159 deal with it right that's that's the 868 00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:16,860 worst thing a government can do because 869 00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:18,840 the whole point of a government in terms 870 00:33:24,049 --> 00:33:20,760 of the theoretical reason for it being 871 00:33:26,210 --> 00:33:24,059 there is to govern right to have some 872 00:33:27,889 --> 00:33:26,220 sort of capacity to control the totality 873 00:33:30,409 --> 00:33:27,899 in a way that's in the best interest 874 00:33:33,289 --> 00:33:30,419 presumably for the whole populace 875 00:33:35,330 --> 00:33:33,299 so what good does it do the populace or 876 00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:35,340 the government in terms of their ability 877 00:33:40,610 --> 00:33:38,460 to hold on to governing power when they 878 00:33:43,190 --> 00:33:40,620 come out admit we have no idea what this 879 00:33:45,950 --> 00:33:43,200 is or how to control it and nothing 880 00:33:47,570 --> 00:33:45,960 prevents like I've mentioned before a 881 00:33:49,970 --> 00:33:47,580 group of aliens showing up in your 882 00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:49,980 bedroom no matter if you're hidden 883 00:33:55,070 --> 00:33:53,220 behind Fort Knox or 884 00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:55,080 you know whatever that facility at NORAD 885 00:33:58,909 --> 00:33:56,220 is 886 00:34:01,070 --> 00:33:58,919 um you know it would literally do no 887 00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,080 good you know you could be behind a 888 00:34:05,350 --> 00:34:03,600 20-foot lead wall and it won't make any 889 00:34:08,329 --> 00:34:05,360 difference 890 00:34:10,190 --> 00:34:08,339 so it just gets it gets really really 891 00:34:11,629 --> 00:34:10,200 complex you know again not just about 892 00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:11,639 what it is there's differences of 893 00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:13,679 opinion on that you know we've discussed 894 00:34:18,829 --> 00:34:16,080 before that governments are a 895 00:34:20,149 --> 00:34:18,839 cross-section of society you know 896 00:34:21,950 --> 00:34:20,159 you and I before we went on the air 897 00:34:24,770 --> 00:34:21,960 tonight we talked about how 898 00:34:26,329 --> 00:34:24,780 military groups tend to you know Edge 899 00:34:29,210 --> 00:34:26,339 towards more the conservative end of 900 00:34:31,490 --> 00:34:29,220 things so they they therefore have more 901 00:34:33,829 --> 00:34:31,500 traditional understandings of reality 902 00:34:35,750 --> 00:34:33,839 right they're more likely than the 903 00:34:38,750 --> 00:34:35,760 average population to lean a bit more 904 00:34:40,430 --> 00:34:38,760 conservative so it's often those people 905 00:34:43,070 --> 00:34:40,440 who are making the decisions about this 906 00:34:44,329 --> 00:34:43,080 right this is from their worldview that 907 00:34:45,770 --> 00:34:44,339 the decision is being made for everyone 908 00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:45,780 else so I think that's that's something 909 00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:48,599 people need to be cognizant of 910 00:34:52,070 --> 00:34:50,399 mm-hmm 911 00:34:54,109 --> 00:34:52,080 right and another thing we talked about 912 00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,119 a little bit before the the show tonight 913 00:35:00,170 --> 00:34:56,879 is the 914 00:35:02,450 --> 00:35:00,180 kind of legacy of 915 00:35:05,870 --> 00:35:02,460 interpretation that might be at work 916 00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:05,880 there in a room like that so it's not 917 00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:08,940 just a matter of oh we you know captured 918 00:35:12,890 --> 00:35:10,980 this and we're all now seeing it for the 919 00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:12,900 first time I think we're under the 920 00:35:17,349 --> 00:35:15,359 impression that this is a kind of 921 00:35:19,970 --> 00:35:17,359 knowledge that has been bouncing around 922 00:35:23,390 --> 00:35:19,980 the secret Halls of the government for 923 00:35:26,329 --> 00:35:23,400 for many many decades now and those who 924 00:35:28,450 --> 00:35:26,339 may have initially encountered this uh 925 00:35:30,230 --> 00:35:28,460 whatever it may be or aspects of it 926 00:35:33,410 --> 00:35:30,240 approached it from a particular 927 00:35:35,329 --> 00:35:33,420 perspective and uh you know they were 928 00:35:37,370 --> 00:35:35,339 living at a particular time and place 929 00:35:40,010 --> 00:35:37,380 and and there were you know geopolitical 930 00:35:42,410 --> 00:35:40,020 factors it worked there that and 931 00:35:44,870 --> 00:35:42,420 cultural factors that work there that 932 00:35:48,050 --> 00:35:44,880 may have led them down a kind of 933 00:35:51,829 --> 00:35:48,060 decision path that made a ton of sense 934 00:35:55,190 --> 00:35:51,839 um and then that way of thinking that 935 00:35:58,190 --> 00:35:55,200 that adopted perspective on this gets 936 00:36:00,890 --> 00:35:58,200 passed down to successive individuals 937 00:36:02,930 --> 00:36:00,900 who become part of those programs so it 938 00:36:06,710 --> 00:36:02,940 becomes an inherited you know kind of 939 00:36:09,230 --> 00:36:06,720 DNA of of the programs themselves and uh 940 00:36:12,589 --> 00:36:09,240 so what we may be experiencing now is is 941 00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,599 really the it's Legacy thinking within 942 00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:14,400 Legacy programs 943 00:36:20,510 --> 00:36:16,800 and I think that's uh very important to 944 00:36:22,510 --> 00:36:20,520 to keep in mind that uh there could very 945 00:36:25,550 --> 00:36:22,520 well be totally different perspectives 946 00:36:28,970 --> 00:36:25,560 but they just might not be all that 947 00:36:31,310 --> 00:36:28,980 prevalent Within These groups uh and so 948 00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:31,320 the the reasons for keeping the secret 949 00:36:34,910 --> 00:36:33,000 could be I don't know for some reason 950 00:36:37,130 --> 00:36:34,920 another kind of antiquated from the way 951 00:36:38,569 --> 00:36:37,140 we might look at it now but it's also 952 00:36:40,010 --> 00:36:38,579 that you know old adage you know the 953 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:40,020 devil you know is better than the devil 954 00:36:44,930 --> 00:36:42,960 that you don't and so it's much easier 955 00:36:47,329 --> 00:36:44,940 to say well let's just uh if we can 956 00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:47,339 anyway keep a lid on this for the time 957 00:36:53,390 --> 00:36:50,460 being because we're already dealing with 958 00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:53,400 uh you know Wars and economic 959 00:36:58,250 --> 00:36:56,640 instability and pandemics and all these 960 00:37:00,290 --> 00:36:58,260 other problems that you know we're not 961 00:37:02,510 --> 00:37:00,300 even getting those things uh all that 962 00:37:04,310 --> 00:37:02,520 done all that well you know so we're 963 00:37:06,410 --> 00:37:04,320 having difficulty juggling those let's 964 00:37:08,930 --> 00:37:06,420 not introduce yet one more thing to the 965 00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:08,940 equation particularly if we don't really 966 00:37:13,670 --> 00:37:10,680 even know all that much to say about it 967 00:37:16,130 --> 00:37:13,680 yeah and I think um 968 00:37:18,230 --> 00:37:16,140 on that point 969 00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:18,240 the degree to which you're willing to 970 00:37:23,329 --> 00:37:20,940 allow change to come in 971 00:37:25,550 --> 00:37:23,339 is largely dependent on how much you 972 00:37:28,490 --> 00:37:25,560 think the status quo is worth 973 00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:28,500 maintaining right so if you have a 974 00:37:32,990 --> 00:37:30,839 comfortable existence and you know 975 00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:33,000 you've you've got your regular paycheck 976 00:37:36,829 --> 00:37:34,440 and your pensions pretty much wrapped up 977 00:37:41,030 --> 00:37:36,839 and you have a nice house with a family 978 00:37:42,950 --> 00:37:41,040 and dogs you know maybe you know these 979 00:37:45,109 --> 00:37:42,960 other existential threats that 980 00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:45,119 everyone's talking about just don't seem 981 00:37:48,470 --> 00:37:47,040 close enough to home to really persuade 982 00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:48,480 you right 983 00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,920 on the other hand you might be someone 984 00:37:54,530 --> 00:37:52,320 who looks at for instance 985 00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:54,540 how climate change is really impacting 986 00:37:58,430 --> 00:37:56,760 the planet already and how much land 987 00:38:00,950 --> 00:37:58,440 mass is just barely above sea level 988 00:38:03,950 --> 00:38:00,960 right and how we keep hearing these 989 00:38:06,530 --> 00:38:03,960 alarms go off around you know the 990 00:38:09,170 --> 00:38:06,540 already the the degree of warming is 991 00:38:10,550 --> 00:38:09,180 much higher you know is pacing much 992 00:38:12,109 --> 00:38:10,560 outpacing what we're expecting to begin 993 00:38:14,270 --> 00:38:12,119 with 994 00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:14,280 um and you look at for instance the 995 00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:16,020 number of animal species that have been 996 00:38:18,829 --> 00:38:17,640 wiped off the planet in the last 50 997 00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:18,839 years you know and I think it's 998 00:38:22,849 --> 00:38:21,119 something like more than the sum total 999 00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:22,859 of all of the previous history or that 1000 00:38:26,990 --> 00:38:24,480 we've been recording or whatever some 1001 00:38:28,670 --> 00:38:27,000 some large number anyway so someone like 1002 00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,680 that might go or they might look at it 1003 00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:31,920 and say we've still got this you know 1004 00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:32,820 um 1005 00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:35,220 immoral disparity between not just 1006 00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:37,680 between say CEOs and the people who are 1007 00:38:41,089 --> 00:38:39,780 the Frontline workers of their companies 1008 00:38:43,250 --> 00:38:41,099 which I think almost everyone would 1009 00:38:45,170 --> 00:38:43,260 agree is this obscene level of disparity 1010 00:38:46,430 --> 00:38:45,180 but then just the disparity between the 1011 00:38:47,870 --> 00:38:46,440 developing world and the first world 1012 00:38:49,730 --> 00:38:47,880 right even though we share a planet 1013 00:38:51,770 --> 00:38:49,740 right and 1014 00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:51,780 um 1015 00:38:55,550 --> 00:38:53,640 if you look at it that way you might 1016 00:38:57,950 --> 00:38:55,560 believe that a shock to the system is 1017 00:39:00,589 --> 00:38:57,960 exactly what we need in fact you look at 1018 00:39:03,530 --> 00:39:00,599 look at the world like a patient on the 1019 00:39:05,210 --> 00:39:03,540 table that's a shock to you know wake 1020 00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:05,220 their heart up is the only chance they 1021 00:39:09,829 --> 00:39:07,320 have for survival right that the status 1022 00:39:12,470 --> 00:39:09,839 quo just watching that body on the table 1023 00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:12,480 right that's non-responsive is not not a 1024 00:39:16,849 --> 00:39:14,040 solution not an option 1025 00:39:18,589 --> 00:39:16,859 so that that's really interesting to me 1026 00:39:20,569 --> 00:39:18,599 um another thing that came to mind when 1027 00:39:23,150 --> 00:39:20,579 you brought up this notion that you know 1028 00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:23,160 these Legacy perspectives on this 1029 00:39:29,990 --> 00:39:28,250 something that came to mind was 1030 00:39:32,270 --> 00:39:30,000 something that Omega Point brought up in 1031 00:39:33,710 --> 00:39:32,280 uh an interview with Richard Dolan um 1032 00:39:35,690 --> 00:39:33,720 that I know we're gonna get into in a 1033 00:39:36,770 --> 00:39:35,700 little bit for their their paper that 1034 00:39:38,750 --> 00:39:36,780 they wrote 1035 00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:38,760 called loose threads 1036 00:39:42,650 --> 00:39:40,800 and he said something really uh profound 1037 00:39:45,050 --> 00:39:42,660 where he said that what you focus on 1038 00:39:47,630 --> 00:39:45,060 will determine what you miss 1039 00:39:49,430 --> 00:39:47,640 which was a great great point and it's 1040 00:39:52,569 --> 00:39:49,440 so true and so for instance if you have 1041 00:39:56,089 --> 00:39:52,579 a a fundamentalist religious perspective 1042 00:39:57,950 --> 00:39:56,099 you might see the dart hit the center of 1043 00:39:59,810 --> 00:39:57,960 the dartboard right aha we've got this 1044 00:40:02,329 --> 00:39:59,820 we've got you know spiritual 1045 00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:02,339 manipulation we've got uh ritual abuse 1046 00:40:06,589 --> 00:40:04,920 we've got whatever might you know 1047 00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:06,599 whatever pick your poison there in terms 1048 00:40:12,290 --> 00:40:09,720 of ways that some of these others seem 1049 00:40:14,030 --> 00:40:12,300 to dominate human beings right 1050 00:40:15,890 --> 00:40:14,040 um 1051 00:40:17,690 --> 00:40:15,900 and so you go that fits the bill right 1052 00:40:20,329 --> 00:40:17,700 there do we need to go further I mean 1053 00:40:22,609 --> 00:40:20,339 come on we got a b c looks like demons 1054 00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:22,619 to me and maybe it's the outlier 1055 00:40:27,470 --> 00:40:25,740 elements that that question whether or 1056 00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:27,480 not that's actually the best fit and I 1057 00:40:31,430 --> 00:40:29,220 think in any kind of scientific Endeavor 1058 00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:31,440 or any kind of rational Endeavor we we 1059 00:40:36,230 --> 00:40:34,320 face this challenge we've evolved to 1060 00:40:38,510 --> 00:40:36,240 take shortcuts we've evolved to quickly 1061 00:40:40,670 --> 00:40:38,520 look for patterns and make decisions 1062 00:40:43,069 --> 00:40:40,680 like on the Fly because that keeps us 1063 00:40:45,050 --> 00:40:43,079 alive right that served us well but in 1064 00:40:46,730 --> 00:40:45,060 these kinds of situations we need to 1065 00:40:49,370 --> 00:40:46,740 actually discipline ourselves to slow 1066 00:40:51,530 --> 00:40:49,380 down to not leap to the first conclusion 1067 00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:51,540 that comes to mind to pay as much 1068 00:40:57,829 --> 00:40:53,400 attention to the outlier data as the 1069 00:41:01,550 --> 00:40:57,839 central data and and be very proactive 1070 00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:01,560 about testing other hypotheses my 1071 00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,079 concern is that some of these people 1072 00:41:07,970 --> 00:41:06,240 were not trained in those kinds of 1073 00:41:10,130 --> 00:41:07,980 faculties right they again these are 1074 00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,140 sometimes military people they think you 1075 00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:12,000 know you go with your gut you know 1076 00:41:15,770 --> 00:41:13,200 you know what I mean like there's a 1077 00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:15,780 certain kind of philosophy and culture 1078 00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,540 right that they inherit there and and 1079 00:41:23,690 --> 00:41:20,640 because it often has because it's such a 1080 00:41:25,069 --> 00:41:23,700 secret it hasn't been doled out to the 1081 00:41:27,410 --> 00:41:25,079 research Community the academic 1082 00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:27,420 Community who are more familiar with 1083 00:41:31,069 --> 00:41:29,280 trying to take something and be very 1084 00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:31,079 methodical about not jumping to 1085 00:41:34,310 --> 00:41:32,700 conclusions and and always paying 1086 00:41:36,290 --> 00:41:34,320 attention to outlier day as much as you 1087 00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:36,300 can so this is part of the problem too 1088 00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:38,700 is it's not just what the data is but 1089 00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:41,400 who gets to look at it 1090 00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:43,859 um and and with that too is a power 1091 00:41:47,810 --> 00:41:45,359 issue 1092 00:41:51,710 --> 00:41:47,820 um I don't want you in my kitchen to see 1093 00:41:53,630 --> 00:41:51,720 how I make my special whatever it is uh 1094 00:41:55,490 --> 00:41:53,640 because I love it it's my family recipe 1095 00:41:56,690 --> 00:41:55,500 you know I'm not going to give it to you 1096 00:41:57,890 --> 00:41:56,700 I don't want you to see it but when you 1097 00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,900 get in there and you look at it you 1098 00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:59,520 realize you're gonna you're gonna tell 1099 00:42:03,170 --> 00:42:00,900 me wait a minute you've been making this 1100 00:42:05,210 --> 00:42:03,180 sauce this way and and you think it's 1101 00:42:08,390 --> 00:42:05,220 Italian it's not Italian at all it's you 1102 00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:08,400 know you know shatter my world and you 1103 00:42:11,870 --> 00:42:09,599 know you might take that in a totally 1104 00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:11,880 different direction and uh that would 1105 00:42:17,329 --> 00:42:15,300 make me uncomfortable so uh 1106 00:42:20,089 --> 00:42:17,339 there are a lot of implications to this 1107 00:42:21,710 --> 00:42:20,099 and um I think that 1108 00:42:25,970 --> 00:42:21,720 we really are 1109 00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:25,980 at a juncture in our human story where 1110 00:42:31,069 --> 00:42:29,280 our world powers are I think in some 1111 00:42:34,190 --> 00:42:31,079 ways struggling 1112 00:42:37,130 --> 00:42:34,200 with how to continue on with the status 1113 00:42:40,970 --> 00:42:37,140 quo using status quo thinking and and 1114 00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:40,980 Status Quo tools when the populations at 1115 00:42:49,010 --> 00:42:46,920 large I think have a growing sense of uh 1116 00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,020 the way in which these things are 1117 00:42:54,310 --> 00:42:51,839 getting frayed it seems that they're not 1118 00:42:57,950 --> 00:42:54,320 working as well that the narrative power 1119 00:43:00,109 --> 00:42:57,960 that once held such strong sway over 1120 00:43:02,569 --> 00:43:00,119 over our everyday life like it just 1121 00:43:04,730 --> 00:43:02,579 isn't there any longer and and in many 1122 00:43:08,270 --> 00:43:04,740 ways we're looking for something that 1123 00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:08,280 will break that glass and uh disrupt the 1124 00:43:12,530 --> 00:43:10,440 entire thing so that's oftentimes why 1125 00:43:16,309 --> 00:43:12,540 you see people championing folks who are 1126 00:43:19,010 --> 00:43:16,319 uh almost chaotic in how they behave in 1127 00:43:20,329 --> 00:43:19,020 our in our larger society uh it's like 1128 00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:20,339 that train wreck that you can't look 1129 00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:22,560 away from and we're almost secretly 1130 00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:24,240 cheering them on yeah you know break 1131 00:43:28,550 --> 00:43:26,819 break that Twitter Elon Musk or you know 1132 00:43:29,630 --> 00:43:28,560 whatever it is 1133 00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,640 um there's this kind of strange 1134 00:43:34,910 --> 00:43:31,680 fascination with it because we we 1135 00:43:37,309 --> 00:43:34,920 recognize that normal isn't working 1136 00:43:40,430 --> 00:43:37,319 anymore at least in the way that that we 1137 00:43:43,190 --> 00:43:40,440 had been taught that it should and so I 1138 00:43:46,069 --> 00:43:43,200 think you know we're dealing with some 1139 00:43:48,530 --> 00:43:46,079 very destabilizing time periods and you 1140 00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:48,540 throw into that 1141 00:43:52,670 --> 00:43:50,700 questions of Ultimate Reality and how 1142 00:43:54,530 --> 00:43:52,680 things actually work and that we're not 1143 00:43:57,170 --> 00:43:54,540 alone and and you can see how very 1144 00:43:59,450 --> 00:43:57,180 quickly it would be 1145 00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:59,460 incredibly challenging to control and 1146 00:44:02,450 --> 00:44:00,900 control is a huge part of this right 1147 00:44:04,130 --> 00:44:02,460 right I mean 1148 00:44:05,030 --> 00:44:04,140 kind of what you just hinted at there I 1149 00:44:08,089 --> 00:44:05,040 mean 1150 00:44:09,650 --> 00:44:08,099 already in our culture we have major 1151 00:44:11,630 --> 00:44:09,660 differences of opinion amongst different 1152 00:44:13,609 --> 00:44:11,640 people groups but what reality is 1153 00:44:18,109 --> 00:44:13,619 already right 1154 00:44:22,069 --> 00:44:20,569 say that uh you know maybe what we 1155 00:44:24,650 --> 00:44:22,079 should have is a meritocracy rather than 1156 00:44:27,230 --> 00:44:24,660 a democracy right so rather than you 1157 00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:27,240 know reality TV star or an ex-football 1158 00:44:32,750 --> 00:44:30,480 player uh becoming a political candidate 1159 00:44:35,150 --> 00:44:32,760 just because people know them right 1160 00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:35,160 uh you actually look for people who have 1161 00:44:37,609 --> 00:44:36,300 a certain background and they've 1162 00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:37,619 demonstrated that they have the skill 1163 00:44:42,890 --> 00:44:39,839 set necessary right and they they have 1164 00:44:44,930 --> 00:44:42,900 the requisite sort of depth of thinking 1165 00:44:46,970 --> 00:44:44,940 and the ability to pause and consider 1166 00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:46,980 different perspectives right but of 1167 00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:48,780 course that's your and eyes of 1168 00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:52,380 definition of what a person deserving of 1169 00:44:56,870 --> 00:44:54,720 that role would exude right those are 1170 00:44:58,609 --> 00:44:56,880 their kind of quality qualities we want 1171 00:44:59,569 --> 00:44:58,619 to see but there's a huge part of the 1172 00:45:01,069 --> 00:44:59,579 population that would completely 1173 00:45:04,130 --> 00:45:01,079 disagree with that right they would say 1174 00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:04,140 that ah you know college education and 1175 00:45:07,309 --> 00:45:05,760 deep thinking just gets you in trouble 1176 00:45:08,809 --> 00:45:07,319 you know just you got your Bible you're 1177 00:45:11,089 --> 00:45:08,819 good to go I don't want those people 1178 00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:11,099 making decisions for my kids you've got 1179 00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,560 some parts of America where 1180 00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:15,599 you know you can't even get a library 1181 00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:17,359 starter because you've got a huge 1182 00:45:22,550 --> 00:45:20,400 continuance of uh parents who want to 1183 00:45:24,710 --> 00:45:22,560 burn books or ban books that are that 1184 00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:24,720 are pretty commonplace and that 30 years 1185 00:45:28,329 --> 00:45:26,220 ago it wasn't a big deal to have those 1186 00:45:31,609 --> 00:45:28,339 books you know in the library system 1187 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,619 uh so you've got that's just within our 1188 00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:33,359 country right you've got these huge 1189 00:45:38,450 --> 00:45:36,060 disparities in terms of what reality is 1190 00:45:40,309 --> 00:45:38,460 and how you should govern right and and 1191 00:45:42,290 --> 00:45:40,319 some people seemingly willing to 1192 00:45:44,809 --> 00:45:42,300 jettison democracy if that's the only 1193 00:45:47,050 --> 00:45:44,819 way they can ensure that their version 1194 00:45:49,970 --> 00:45:47,060 of what America should be gets in right 1195 00:45:51,530 --> 00:45:49,980 so that's why I think it's laughable 1196 00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,540 when people say 1197 00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:54,000 oh I think we're totally ready for this 1198 00:45:57,530 --> 00:45:55,440 disclosure I'm like what do you mean 1199 00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:57,540 we're ready we we can't even handle what 1200 00:46:02,210 --> 00:46:00,480 we have now uh so so when people say 1201 00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,220 that I think a couple things either 1202 00:46:05,809 --> 00:46:03,839 they're not thinking it through very 1203 00:46:07,730 --> 00:46:05,819 clearly they're they're applying their 1204 00:46:09,770 --> 00:46:07,740 own situation to everybody else too much 1205 00:46:11,390 --> 00:46:09,780 right they're saying well I'm ready so 1206 00:46:13,309 --> 00:46:11,400 everybody else probably is too and my my 1207 00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:13,319 friend John my brother Chris he's ready 1208 00:46:15,970 --> 00:46:14,400 too right 1209 00:46:17,870 --> 00:46:15,980 but that's not a very you know 1210 00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:17,880 representative sample of the entire 1211 00:46:23,690 --> 00:46:20,040 culture 1212 00:46:28,609 --> 00:46:26,690 yeah so it's it's uh 1213 00:46:30,230 --> 00:46:28,619 ah we keep going back to this it's 1214 00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:30,240 incredibly complex 1215 00:46:34,130 --> 00:46:32,160 but I think because you and I are are 1216 00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:34,140 willing to you know hold open the door 1217 00:46:37,670 --> 00:46:35,700 we don't need to have 1218 00:46:39,170 --> 00:46:37,680 um all the energy sucked out into one 1219 00:46:43,069 --> 00:46:39,180 room or the other we don't need a vacuum 1220 00:46:44,930 --> 00:46:43,079 we we are okay with some ambiguity 1221 00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:44,940 I'm willing to 1222 00:46:50,990 --> 00:46:47,880 be open to the notion that 1223 00:46:53,630 --> 00:46:51,000 there are some people who have argued 1224 00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:53,640 for keeping this under wraps for now 1225 00:46:58,730 --> 00:46:55,380 really because they do think that's in 1226 00:47:00,589 --> 00:46:58,740 the best interest of the public good and 1227 00:47:02,089 --> 00:47:00,599 whether or not you agree with that is a 1228 00:47:03,349 --> 00:47:02,099 different question but I think it's 1229 00:47:04,970 --> 00:47:03,359 important to acknowledge I think there 1230 00:47:07,609 --> 00:47:04,980 are some people like that it's not all 1231 00:47:10,250 --> 00:47:07,619 just all these power mongers who are 1232 00:47:11,809 --> 00:47:10,260 worried about like losing their power uh 1233 00:47:13,609 --> 00:47:11,819 being thrown out of government or that 1234 00:47:14,930 --> 00:47:13,619 we're going to solve climate change and 1235 00:47:16,370 --> 00:47:14,940 have free energy and they just don't 1236 00:47:18,230 --> 00:47:16,380 want that because they're greedy there 1237 00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:18,240 are some like that but there are some 1238 00:47:22,790 --> 00:47:20,160 that honestly look at this and they look 1239 00:47:24,710 --> 00:47:22,800 at the already the chaotic nature of our 1240 00:47:26,089 --> 00:47:24,720 culture and they say I don't know this 1241 00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,099 is the one more thing that they can 1242 00:47:30,349 --> 00:47:28,800 handle right now so 1243 00:47:32,089 --> 00:47:30,359 um 1244 00:47:34,730 --> 00:47:32,099 yeah it's worth considering it from 1245 00:47:37,010 --> 00:47:34,740 different points of view and it's easy 1246 00:47:39,770 --> 00:47:37,020 to uh to argue from a vacuum right when 1247 00:47:41,630 --> 00:47:39,780 we don't there's so much we don't know 1248 00:47:43,190 --> 00:47:41,640 um in terms of what data they're sitting 1249 00:47:44,870 --> 00:47:43,200 on it's easy to sort of become an 1250 00:47:46,849 --> 00:47:44,880 armchair quarterback and make decisions 1251 00:47:48,589 --> 00:47:46,859 but until you're really in that 1252 00:47:50,569 --> 00:47:48,599 situation fully aware of the of the 1253 00:47:51,950 --> 00:47:50,579 implications you don't really know what 1254 00:47:54,530 --> 00:47:51,960 you would do 1255 00:47:59,089 --> 00:47:56,809 but that said again I think it comes 1256 00:48:00,829 --> 00:47:59,099 down to how much of a shock to the 1257 00:48:02,270 --> 00:48:00,839 system do you feel we need and I think 1258 00:48:04,069 --> 00:48:02,280 every person will answer that slightly 1259 00:48:06,109 --> 00:48:04,079 differently you and I talked earlier 1260 00:48:08,030 --> 00:48:06,119 tonight about when you have a family and 1261 00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,040 responsibilities it kind of changes the 1262 00:48:10,660 --> 00:48:09,599 equation a bit and it certainly does 1263 00:48:11,089 --> 00:48:10,670 right 1264 00:48:12,589 --> 00:48:11,099 [Music] 1265 00:48:14,329 --> 00:48:12,599 um 1266 00:48:16,849 --> 00:48:14,339 and then it again it becomes an 1267 00:48:18,410 --> 00:48:16,859 interesting calculus between are my kids 1268 00:48:20,510 --> 00:48:18,420 better off with 1269 00:48:23,329 --> 00:48:20,520 trying to maintain the status quo and 1270 00:48:24,950 --> 00:48:23,339 change things incrementally or is it in 1271 00:48:26,750 --> 00:48:24,960 their long-term best interest to like 1272 00:48:28,910 --> 00:48:26,760 blow everything up now not literally but 1273 00:48:31,250 --> 00:48:28,920 I mean figuratively for the sake of 1274 00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,260 maybe by the time they're my age they 1275 00:48:35,390 --> 00:48:33,839 have a world that seems more peaceful 1276 00:48:38,510 --> 00:48:35,400 sustainable 1277 00:48:43,730 --> 00:48:41,510 well and I I wanted to explore too like 1278 00:48:48,730 --> 00:48:43,740 to what extent do you think that holding 1279 00:48:51,710 --> 00:48:48,740 back some of the maybe fundamental uh 1280 00:48:54,349 --> 00:48:51,720 discoveries keeping those discoveries 1281 00:48:56,809 --> 00:48:54,359 behind closed doors it creates a real 1282 00:48:59,990 --> 00:48:56,819 power or disparity in other words 1283 00:49:02,210 --> 00:49:00,000 they're weaponizing nature so the nature 1284 00:49:04,130 --> 00:49:02,220 of reality to their advantage or their 1285 00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:04,140 weaponizing technology that they've 1286 00:49:10,069 --> 00:49:08,460 acquired to the state's Advantage uh you 1287 00:49:13,130 --> 00:49:10,079 know at the detriment of their own 1288 00:49:14,750 --> 00:49:13,140 citizenry let alone those who are in the 1289 00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,760 rest of the world there are certainly 1290 00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:16,800 signs that point to that being the case 1291 00:49:22,250 --> 00:49:18,900 I mean like remote viewing in particular 1292 00:49:24,290 --> 00:49:22,260 comes to mind this uh you know sort of 1293 00:49:27,589 --> 00:49:24,300 discovery that you know 1294 00:49:29,690 --> 00:49:27,599 of non-locality and uh our ability to 1295 00:49:31,730 --> 00:49:29,700 kind of peer into you know different 1296 00:49:34,089 --> 00:49:31,740 places and time and space and and 1297 00:49:37,190 --> 00:49:34,099 retrieve information as if we were there 1298 00:49:38,809 --> 00:49:37,200 uh you know has has absolutely been used 1299 00:49:41,569 --> 00:49:38,819 by our government in some form or 1300 00:49:43,309 --> 00:49:41,579 fashion uh has been studied and and most 1301 00:49:45,230 --> 00:49:43,319 would agree who studied this closely 1302 00:49:49,010 --> 00:49:45,240 that it's still happening to this day 1303 00:49:51,710 --> 00:49:49,020 but but that one little fact is a 1304 00:49:53,950 --> 00:49:51,720 insight into the nature of how reality 1305 00:49:56,630 --> 00:49:53,960 actually is that would probably change 1306 00:49:58,849 --> 00:49:56,640 the rest of the world 1307 00:50:00,650 --> 00:49:58,859 um and so it's it's a it's a I can see 1308 00:50:02,450 --> 00:50:00,660 why they keep it secret because it's a 1309 00:50:05,030 --> 00:50:02,460 it gives them a great degree of power 1310 00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,040 but it's it also feels very selfish to 1311 00:50:10,309 --> 00:50:07,680 withhold that kind of knowledge about 1312 00:50:12,470 --> 00:50:10,319 the nature of reality from from all of 1313 00:50:13,609 --> 00:50:12,480 us yeah I'm glad I'm glad we're spending 1314 00:50:15,470 --> 00:50:13,619 an episode getting into this because 1315 00:50:18,470 --> 00:50:15,480 there's so many nuances to it it really 1316 00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:18,480 is so complex and I I want to be careful 1317 00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:20,280 to dance around a bit here because I 1318 00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:21,660 don't want to give people the impression 1319 00:50:26,030 --> 00:50:22,680 that I'm 1320 00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:26,040 I'm all you know for disclosure or 1321 00:50:29,990 --> 00:50:27,660 completely against disclosure I'm saying 1322 00:50:32,510 --> 00:50:30,000 that I think it's complicated I do think 1323 00:50:34,550 --> 00:50:32,520 though to your point that absolutely and 1324 00:50:37,250 --> 00:50:34,560 I want to make this clear there have 1325 00:50:40,790 --> 00:50:37,260 been some military groups 1326 00:50:44,569 --> 00:50:40,800 some Elite elitist groups who have kept 1327 00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:44,579 this for themselves and they've been in 1328 00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:47,760 a silo of thinking for so long a culture 1329 00:50:52,849 --> 00:50:50,640 Silo for so long that they no longer are 1330 00:50:54,770 --> 00:50:52,859 able to distinguish between what's 1331 00:50:57,049 --> 00:50:54,780 really in the best interest of the 1332 00:51:00,410 --> 00:50:57,059 society they supposedly serve versus 1333 00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,420 what's in their best interest as a as a 1334 00:51:04,849 --> 00:51:02,640 group or as a you know some sort of body 1335 00:51:06,770 --> 00:51:04,859 that's in power they really can't even 1336 00:51:09,470 --> 00:51:06,780 separate the two anymore and because 1337 00:51:10,849 --> 00:51:09,480 there is no conversation going on with 1338 00:51:12,589 --> 00:51:10,859 the public to ensure that they are 1339 00:51:14,450 --> 00:51:12,599 making decisions in our best interest 1340 00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,460 because they claim National Security and 1341 00:51:18,590 --> 00:51:16,800 so you have this disconnect right for 1342 00:51:19,250 --> 00:51:18,600 Generations now basically 1343 00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:19,260 [Music] 1344 00:51:22,309 --> 00:51:20,400 um 1345 00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:22,319 that that makes it all more likely that 1346 00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:23,520 they're they're completely out of touch 1347 00:51:27,710 --> 00:51:25,440 with what what really would matter to 1348 00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:27,720 the rest of us and by the way speaking 1349 00:51:31,849 --> 00:51:29,520 of generations that's that's a big 1350 00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:31,859 reason why there's this push to get 1351 00:51:35,150 --> 00:51:33,660 whistleblowers in front of Congress 1352 00:51:37,030 --> 00:51:35,160 because a lot of these people are 1353 00:51:40,370 --> 00:51:37,040 passing away I mean right this has been 1354 00:51:43,910 --> 00:51:40,380 generations of secrecy right 1355 00:51:49,790 --> 00:51:47,270 but I think there is 1356 00:51:52,250 --> 00:51:49,800 clear evidence that I see that there 1357 00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:52,260 have been some elitist kind of military 1358 00:51:58,370 --> 00:51:54,420 groups 1359 00:52:00,650 --> 00:51:58,380 that have even made Accords with some of 1360 00:52:03,230 --> 00:52:00,660 the less benevolent 1361 00:52:04,970 --> 00:52:03,240 extraterrestrial groups or non-human 1362 00:52:08,750 --> 00:52:04,980 intelligent groups 1363 00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:08,760 and that they while they may justify to 1364 00:52:12,170 --> 00:52:10,200 themselves that this is in the best 1365 00:52:14,030 --> 00:52:12,180 interest of the populace that doesn't 1366 00:52:16,010 --> 00:52:14,040 mean it actually is it just means that 1367 00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:16,020 they are able to convince themselves of 1368 00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:18,240 that and I really do think they 1369 00:52:22,370 --> 00:52:20,520 sometimes sincerely believe that but 1370 00:52:23,930 --> 00:52:22,380 this is exactly why you have democracy 1371 00:52:27,230 --> 00:52:23,940 this is exactly why you're supposed to 1372 00:52:28,730 --> 00:52:27,240 have transparency because everyone can 1373 00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,740 get it get into a place where they're a 1374 00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,780 bit deluded about how that would land 1375 00:52:35,809 --> 00:52:32,700 with the populace if there isn't an 1376 00:52:39,410 --> 00:52:35,819 ongoing conversation going on so 1377 00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:41,089 swallowed thinking is a huge part of the 1378 00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:42,180 problem 1379 00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:43,920 um in terms of you know even different 1380 00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:45,780 agencies sharing information so we can 1381 00:52:48,349 --> 00:52:46,920 try and get more of a robust 1382 00:52:50,329 --> 00:52:48,359 understanding 1383 00:52:51,950 --> 00:52:50,339 and as I say all this too it occurs to 1384 00:52:53,390 --> 00:52:51,960 me I sort of have my own understanding 1385 00:52:55,250 --> 00:52:53,400 of what's going on right and then I sort 1386 00:52:57,589 --> 00:52:55,260 of put on this other hat where I sort of 1387 00:52:59,030 --> 00:52:57,599 become the typical ufologist behind the 1388 00:53:00,950 --> 00:52:59,040 scenes talking what's going on but those 1389 00:53:02,270 --> 00:53:00,960 are kind of two different viewpoints so 1390 00:53:04,010 --> 00:53:02,280 just so people are clear right now I'm 1391 00:53:05,329 --> 00:53:04,020 sort of the typical you follow just hat 1392 00:53:07,069 --> 00:53:05,339 I'm wearing right now 1393 00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:07,079 and um 1394 00:53:11,630 --> 00:53:09,599 from that point of view I can see how 1395 00:53:13,370 --> 00:53:11,640 people are adamant we just need data 1396 00:53:15,470 --> 00:53:13,380 give us data and let us decide what to 1397 00:53:16,910 --> 00:53:15,480 do with it 1398 00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:16,920 mm-hmm 1399 00:53:23,089 --> 00:53:20,640 right yeah that's uh you know you bring 1400 00:53:26,270 --> 00:53:23,099 up a good point there that 1401 00:53:28,069 --> 00:53:26,280 the more one spends with the topic the 1402 00:53:29,870 --> 00:53:28,079 more 1403 00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,880 I guess like 1404 00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:32,160 they'd use the word you know concrete 1405 00:53:36,170 --> 00:53:33,660 but ideas become a little bit more 1406 00:53:38,329 --> 00:53:36,180 concrete as to what it actually is and I 1407 00:53:40,069 --> 00:53:38,339 know you've come along on your own 1408 00:53:42,410 --> 00:53:40,079 journey to a place where you feel a 1409 00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:42,420 little more strongly about you know what 1410 00:53:49,069 --> 00:53:45,599 it actually is and um that leads me to 1411 00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:49,079 the question of you know how much 1412 00:53:58,309 --> 00:53:56,870 the the issue of disclosure anyway you 1413 00:54:00,829 --> 00:53:58,319 know like because I think about this 1414 00:54:02,510 --> 00:54:00,839 quite a bit right like to me there are 1415 00:54:05,809 --> 00:54:02,520 enough 1416 00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:05,819 truths about reality that 1417 00:54:12,470 --> 00:54:09,900 don't involve UFOs or you know 1418 00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:12,480 paranormality that 1419 00:54:17,510 --> 00:54:15,599 occupy my own thinking enough and and 1420 00:54:20,470 --> 00:54:17,520 kind of and I can arrive in a very 1421 00:54:22,970 --> 00:54:20,480 similar place without needing those 1422 00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:22,980 nuggets of information 1423 00:54:29,589 --> 00:54:26,880 um so you know an example it would be uh 1424 00:54:32,030 --> 00:54:29,599 just how vast the universe actually is 1425 00:54:35,150 --> 00:54:32,040 the chances that there are other 1426 00:54:38,450 --> 00:54:35,160 intelligent life forms other than us 1427 00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:38,460 that exist and who are arguably far more 1428 00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:40,680 intelligent than we are like I mean the 1429 00:54:46,010 --> 00:54:43,140 math is just astronomically in favor of 1430 00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:46,020 that so whether they're here or not I 1431 00:54:50,030 --> 00:54:47,940 don't even need that to be true to know 1432 00:54:51,770 --> 00:54:50,040 that they're real 1433 00:54:55,250 --> 00:54:51,780 um just based on the math 1434 00:54:58,490 --> 00:54:55,260 and if they're real then what does that 1435 00:55:01,790 --> 00:54:58,500 then mean for my own way of thinking my 1436 00:55:05,630 --> 00:55:01,800 own cosmology uh these questions of 1437 00:55:08,569 --> 00:55:05,640 ultimate truth because I can then easily 1438 00:55:10,309 --> 00:55:08,579 go from that one nugget to well let's 1439 00:55:12,530 --> 00:55:10,319 take an analogy from where we actually 1440 00:55:14,569 --> 00:55:12,540 are so you know we talked about this 1441 00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:14,579 before the show but you know we you know 1442 00:55:18,650 --> 00:55:16,020 there are other life forms that occupy 1443 00:55:20,930 --> 00:55:18,660 our Earth their ants their fish and they 1444 00:55:23,750 --> 00:55:20,940 live in their own little biomes and they 1445 00:55:24,950 --> 00:55:23,760 have absolutely zero awareness or very 1446 00:55:28,549 --> 00:55:24,960 little awareness that they're 1447 00:55:31,430 --> 00:55:28,559 interacting with us and and to to an ant 1448 00:55:33,290 --> 00:55:31,440 or a fish like they've got reality all 1449 00:55:35,930 --> 00:55:33,300 figured out like it it makes perfect 1450 00:55:38,089 --> 00:55:35,940 sense and and we're we're in this 1451 00:55:40,010 --> 00:55:38,099 scenario we're the same we're we're the 1452 00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:40,020 ant we're we're the fish and the larger 1453 00:55:44,450 --> 00:55:42,180 biome is the universe and you know we 1454 00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:44,460 have this arrogance that oh you know 1455 00:55:47,990 --> 00:55:46,079 we've got this all figured out and 1456 00:55:50,089 --> 00:55:48,000 you've got our you know physicists our 1457 00:55:51,710 --> 00:55:50,099 popular physicists on TV all the time 1458 00:55:53,750 --> 00:55:51,720 you know making these Grand Prix 1459 00:55:56,809 --> 00:55:53,760 announcements about you know what alien 1460 00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:56,819 life might be or what what have you but 1461 00:56:02,870 --> 00:55:59,400 uh we're we're just as ignorant if not 1462 00:56:05,930 --> 00:56:02,880 more so than those ants and fish right 1463 00:56:08,809 --> 00:56:05,940 and so I I guess you know I want to put 1464 00:56:11,510 --> 00:56:08,819 it to you I mean how important is it 1465 00:56:13,370 --> 00:56:11,520 that somebody steps up to a Podium and 1466 00:56:16,609 --> 00:56:13,380 says hey we've got bodies hey we've got 1467 00:56:18,349 --> 00:56:16,619 craft and uh and you know it's going to 1468 00:56:21,710 --> 00:56:18,359 change your life forever you know do we 1469 00:56:24,470 --> 00:56:21,720 do we even need that in other words to 1470 00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:24,480 come to the kind of awareness that that 1471 00:56:28,490 --> 00:56:26,160 we probably 1472 00:56:30,829 --> 00:56:28,500 should be arriving at just taking into 1473 00:56:33,770 --> 00:56:30,839 consideration what we already know about 1474 00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:33,780 our own experience yeah that's a great 1475 00:56:38,750 --> 00:56:35,280 point I mean you mentioned earlier 1476 00:56:40,490 --> 00:56:38,760 remote viewing I mean there is all sorts 1477 00:56:44,630 --> 00:56:40,500 of evidence you know within 1478 00:56:48,230 --> 00:56:44,640 parapsychology to demonstrate how valid 1479 00:56:49,970 --> 00:56:48,240 Psy is right and um so we don't need to 1480 00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:49,980 have proof that a gray alien can 1481 00:56:55,250 --> 00:56:52,200 telepathically communicate to to John 1482 00:56:56,109 --> 00:56:55,260 Doe right we know that human beings can 1483 00:56:58,609 --> 00:56:56,119 do it 1484 00:57:00,349 --> 00:56:58,619 we know that when people experience a 1485 00:57:02,870 --> 00:57:00,359 near-death experience it seems to be the 1486 00:57:05,569 --> 00:57:02,880 case that the physical body is not the 1487 00:57:06,650 --> 00:57:05,579 sum total of what a human being is and 1488 00:57:08,329 --> 00:57:06,660 that 1489 00:57:10,309 --> 00:57:08,339 um they these people will sometimes come 1490 00:57:11,690 --> 00:57:10,319 back with new capacities 1491 00:57:14,990 --> 00:57:11,700 you know for instance they have 1492 00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:15,000 precognitive dreams or they can sense 1493 00:57:19,910 --> 00:57:17,040 people's emotions or their thoughts 1494 00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:19,920 right new capacities come online that 1495 00:57:23,750 --> 00:57:21,720 are very uncannily similar to what 1496 00:57:25,190 --> 00:57:23,760 happens when people are sometimes in the 1497 00:57:28,309 --> 00:57:25,200 presence of a gray alien or something 1498 00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:28,319 like that so you know you think yeah out 1499 00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:29,760 of body experiences near-death 1500 00:57:34,549 --> 00:57:32,700 experiences remote viewing telepathies 1501 00:57:35,990 --> 00:57:34,559 telekinesis you know all these things 1502 00:57:38,210 --> 00:57:36,000 that we have 1503 00:57:40,609 --> 00:57:38,220 evidence that even if most people are 1504 00:57:43,910 --> 00:57:40,619 not like in you know incredibly skillful 1505 00:57:46,010 --> 00:57:43,920 in these zones yet in these areas we do 1506 00:57:47,930 --> 00:57:46,020 see evidence pretty much across the 1507 00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,940 board that everyone to some degree is 1508 00:57:52,670 --> 00:57:50,400 psychic right which already tells us as 1509 00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,680 you're hinting at something fundamental 1510 00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:54,720 about the nature of reality right that 1511 00:58:00,170 --> 00:57:57,839 that what the conventional model tells 1512 00:58:01,849 --> 00:58:00,180 us can't be correct and what's 1513 00:58:02,930 --> 00:58:01,859 surprising about that and you and I were 1514 00:58:04,970 --> 00:58:02,940 talking about this before we went on the 1515 00:58:06,890 --> 00:58:04,980 air it hasn't really changed much right 1516 00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:06,900 or even like you know quantum mechanics 1517 00:58:12,290 --> 00:58:08,880 and you said earlier you know like local 1518 00:58:14,450 --> 00:58:12,300 realism is not a thing right I mean uh a 1519 00:58:17,030 --> 00:58:14,460 Pulitzer Prize was recently won by a 1520 00:58:18,530 --> 00:58:17,040 group who demonstrated this and yet you 1521 00:58:22,250 --> 00:58:18,540 know this is not the kind of thing you 1522 00:58:24,290 --> 00:58:22,260 you see on the the the magazines at the 1523 00:58:25,849 --> 00:58:24,300 Walmart checkout right I mean it's 1524 00:58:27,349 --> 00:58:25,859 generally not right so it's more like 1525 00:58:29,390 --> 00:58:27,359 what are the Kardashians doing this week 1526 00:58:30,650 --> 00:58:29,400 so I mean that's that's kind of the 1527 00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:30,660 center of gravity of our civilization 1528 00:58:34,790 --> 00:58:33,599 right I mean even when we do have for 1529 00:58:37,250 --> 00:58:34,800 those who are really paying attention 1530 00:58:39,349 --> 00:58:37,260 those who have eyes to see 1531 00:58:41,809 --> 00:58:39,359 um we have all we need basically already 1532 00:58:44,569 --> 00:58:41,819 to say that reality is fundamentally 1533 00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,579 different and more connected than what 1534 00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:46,319 we've been told and yet it has not 1535 00:58:52,190 --> 00:58:49,920 changed the the majority position 1536 00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:52,200 um and so like you say it begs the 1537 00:58:54,890 --> 00:58:53,940 question if there's a press conference 1538 00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:54,900 tomorrow 1539 00:59:00,049 --> 00:58:57,660 where they say here's some photos of the 1540 00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,059 bodies here's the craft as it turns out 1541 00:59:02,990 --> 00:59:01,680 we've been able to you know re-engineer 1542 00:59:05,690 --> 00:59:03,000 a couple of these 1543 00:59:07,910 --> 00:59:05,700 how much would that really change things 1544 00:59:10,309 --> 00:59:07,920 you know I think some people 1545 00:59:11,450 --> 00:59:10,319 kind of have this Shangri-La hope that 1546 00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:11,460 it's going to be the one thing that's 1547 00:59:14,630 --> 00:59:13,440 really going to tip the scales and 1548 00:59:16,730 --> 00:59:14,640 suddenly we'll be working with free 1549 00:59:18,650 --> 00:59:16,740 energy 10 years from now and there will 1550 00:59:20,809 --> 00:59:18,660 be no multinational corporations and the 1551 00:59:22,569 --> 00:59:20,819 free market system will have been you 1552 00:59:25,670 --> 00:59:22,579 know given birth or something much more 1553 00:59:28,670 --> 00:59:25,680 synergistic and sustainable and you know 1554 00:59:29,450 --> 00:59:28,680 all these kind of pipe dreams that you 1555 00:59:31,370 --> 00:59:29,460 ask 1556 00:59:32,990 --> 00:59:31,380 is that really connected to reality 1557 00:59:35,329 --> 00:59:33,000 based on what we just said that already 1558 00:59:37,250 --> 00:59:35,339 there's revelation of all these things 1559 00:59:39,470 --> 00:59:37,260 being true and yet most of the populace 1560 00:59:40,490 --> 00:59:39,480 either is not aware of it or when 1561 00:59:43,930 --> 00:59:40,500 they're aware of it it just doesn't 1562 00:59:46,789 --> 00:59:43,940 really change their day-to-day Behavior 1563 00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:46,799 right and and think too uh you know 1564 00:59:50,390 --> 00:59:48,480 situations that I'm sure a lot of folks 1565 00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:50,400 fantasize about since we've grown up 1566 00:59:54,530 --> 00:59:52,260 with these kinds of cultural influences 1567 00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,540 but oh I could have a spaceship you know 1568 00:59:59,089 --> 00:59:56,400 I could I could travel with a Galaxy and 1569 01:00:00,829 --> 00:59:59,099 I could visit different alien worlds and 1570 01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:00,839 you know whatever but I mean the 1571 01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:03,660 consequences of uh you know billions of 1572 01:00:08,030 --> 01:00:06,000 humans just sort of you know dispersing 1573 01:00:10,370 --> 01:00:08,040 themselves through the universe uh you 1574 01:00:11,990 --> 01:00:10,380 know riding around with uh 1575 01:00:13,370 --> 01:00:12,000 technology that could very easily 1576 01:00:15,770 --> 01:00:13,380 weaponize to wipe out other 1577 01:00:17,329 --> 01:00:15,780 civilizations is absolutely horrible and 1578 01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:17,339 by the way we're moving into a time 1579 01:00:21,349 --> 01:00:19,680 period in our in our own culture and our 1580 01:00:22,910 --> 01:00:21,359 own technological advancement 1581 01:00:23,990 --> 01:00:22,920 where we could basically have that 1582 01:00:26,569 --> 01:00:24,000 experience with it actually without 1583 01:00:29,089 --> 01:00:26,579 actually leaving our planet you know so 1584 01:00:32,930 --> 01:00:29,099 we're um I mean you know I have a 1585 01:00:34,190 --> 01:00:32,940 fascination with the AI art and and uh 1586 01:00:37,130 --> 01:00:34,200 I'm really interested in where that's 1587 01:00:39,170 --> 01:00:37,140 going and and it's very easy for me to 1588 01:00:42,170 --> 01:00:39,180 see that we are on the at the very 1589 01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,180 beginning stages of a custom 1590 01:00:47,990 --> 01:00:45,359 a highly customized experience of 1591 01:00:51,049 --> 01:00:48,000 reality that will be brought to all of 1592 01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:51,059 our eyeballs and senses uh you know at 1593 01:00:57,470 --> 01:00:54,240 our at our beck and call and uh we don't 1594 01:00:58,609 --> 01:00:57,480 need spaceships to have that so 1595 01:01:00,890 --> 01:00:58,619 um you know it's just it's just 1596 01:01:04,030 --> 01:01:00,900 interesting to me the motivations that I 1597 01:01:07,490 --> 01:01:04,040 observe behind the need for disclosure 1598 01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:07,500 and you know kind of assessing what 1599 01:01:11,510 --> 01:01:09,359 those motivations might be and the and 1600 01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:11,520 the character of individuals that are 1601 01:01:14,750 --> 01:01:13,859 calling for that and you know what is it 1602 01:01:16,730 --> 01:01:14,760 they're going to do with that 1603 01:01:18,829 --> 01:01:16,740 information and how is it they're going 1604 01:01:20,270 --> 01:01:18,839 to change what what what is their life 1605 01:01:23,089 --> 01:01:20,280 going to be like how will they interact 1606 01:01:26,270 --> 01:01:23,099 with their people differently uh and and 1607 01:01:28,250 --> 01:01:26,280 you know also to the point if if uh if 1608 01:01:29,569 --> 01:01:28,260 this is real for you then you know it 1609 01:01:31,609 --> 01:01:29,579 should be changing the way you live your 1610 01:01:33,349 --> 01:01:31,619 life right now you know you shouldn't 1611 01:01:35,329 --> 01:01:33,359 need someone to step forward on an 1612 01:01:37,309 --> 01:01:35,339 official capacity and make a 1613 01:01:40,010 --> 01:01:37,319 pronouncement for you to live 1614 01:01:41,990 --> 01:01:40,020 differently in the world where you 1615 01:01:43,609 --> 01:01:42,000 happen to be you know how are you 1616 01:01:44,930 --> 01:01:43,619 treating those that you care about how 1617 01:01:47,450 --> 01:01:44,940 are you treating those that you live 1618 01:01:48,770 --> 01:01:47,460 near uh what are the decisions that 1619 01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:48,780 you're making I mean these are things 1620 01:01:53,809 --> 01:01:51,839 that we still have to figure out and a 1621 01:01:55,789 --> 01:01:53,819 disclosure of an alien body is going to 1622 01:01:58,910 --> 01:01:55,799 solve that for us right and I think of 1623 01:01:59,930 --> 01:01:58,920 two tangents that I can go on with that 1624 01:02:01,990 --> 01:01:59,940 point 1625 01:02:02,630 --> 01:02:02,000 the first one being that 1626 01:02:04,190 --> 01:02:02,640 [Music] 1627 01:02:07,370 --> 01:02:04,200 um 1628 01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,470 the irony is 1629 01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:11,760 in some ways all the evidence you need 1630 01:02:15,289 --> 01:02:13,920 already exists you know again depending 1631 01:02:17,329 --> 01:02:15,299 on what you consider evidence right 1632 01:02:19,970 --> 01:02:17,339 we've discussed this before 1633 01:02:22,490 --> 01:02:19,980 but to me it seems Preposterous that 1634 01:02:26,270 --> 01:02:22,500 this wealth of experience for literature 1635 01:02:29,270 --> 01:02:26,280 we have that going back decades now 1636 01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:29,280 is is all dismissable as you know 1637 01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:30,960 anecdotal therefore we can't take it 1638 01:02:34,970 --> 01:02:32,480 seriously whatever there's just so much 1639 01:02:37,250 --> 01:02:34,980 overlap so many common elements even 1640 01:02:38,930 --> 01:02:37,260 absurdly common elements right that 1641 01:02:41,150 --> 01:02:38,940 people wouldn't want to bring into the 1642 01:02:42,589 --> 01:02:41,160 picture that are there amongst people 1643 01:02:44,450 --> 01:02:42,599 that are considered credible and as I've 1644 01:02:47,510 --> 01:02:44,460 said many times even if you allow for a 1645 01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:47,520 fairly large portion to be fraudulent or 1646 01:02:52,849 --> 01:02:51,359 misidentified or whatever your mental 1647 01:02:55,430 --> 01:02:52,859 illness you know you can add all that in 1648 01:02:57,710 --> 01:02:55,440 but you still with a sheer number it's 1649 01:02:59,690 --> 01:02:57,720 still pointing to a real reality you 1650 01:03:03,230 --> 01:02:59,700 know it's it's saying that 1651 01:03:05,030 --> 01:03:03,240 there are these beings that 1652 01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:05,040 um are kind of across the board in terms 1653 01:03:08,870 --> 01:03:06,660 of the moral Spectrum while some people 1654 01:03:11,569 --> 01:03:08,880 want to say it's all love and light are 1655 01:03:14,210 --> 01:03:11,579 all demons in darkness I don't see how 1656 01:03:16,549 --> 01:03:14,220 you square that with the data 1657 01:03:18,589 --> 01:03:16,559 I think yes sometimes people have 1658 01:03:20,270 --> 01:03:18,599 ontologically shocking experiences and 1659 01:03:21,530 --> 01:03:20,280 they ascribe negative qualities to 1660 01:03:23,390 --> 01:03:21,540 beings that we're not trying to be 1661 01:03:25,849 --> 01:03:23,400 negative or malevolent 1662 01:03:29,690 --> 01:03:25,859 but there are also plenty of times where 1663 01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:29,700 the encounters are definitely more 1664 01:03:34,849 --> 01:03:33,000 um intrusive and and negative in tone 1665 01:03:37,549 --> 01:03:34,859 than they need to be right especially 1666 01:03:39,710 --> 01:03:37,559 for a supposedly Advanced race on the 1667 01:03:41,450 --> 01:03:39,720 other hand uh you know there are beings 1668 01:03:44,690 --> 01:03:41,460 that are very positive and inspirational 1669 01:03:47,750 --> 01:03:44,700 and heal people right and we have 1670 01:03:50,870 --> 01:03:47,760 depictions of these beings seen across 1671 01:03:52,849 --> 01:03:50,880 cultures and over time right and we have 1672 01:03:54,650 --> 01:03:52,859 you know narratives around where they 1673 01:03:55,970 --> 01:03:54,660 come from and to what degree or the 1674 01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,980 Extraterrestrial and what degree are 1675 01:03:59,450 --> 01:03:57,839 they interdimensional I'm not saying 1676 01:04:01,270 --> 01:03:59,460 it's easy to sort all that out and you 1677 01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:01,280 still always have to work through 1678 01:04:05,450 --> 01:04:03,599 people's individual biases their 1679 01:04:06,950 --> 01:04:05,460 individual interpretive grids that 1680 01:04:10,250 --> 01:04:06,960 they're pulling this information through 1681 01:04:12,530 --> 01:04:10,260 but you can still do the work to try to 1682 01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:12,540 mask all that data take into account all 1683 01:04:16,609 --> 01:04:14,400 those different World Views and still 1684 01:04:19,130 --> 01:04:16,619 see what strains through right as sort 1685 01:04:20,930 --> 01:04:19,140 of like common ground and that basically 1686 01:04:23,030 --> 01:04:20,940 gives you everything you need I mean we 1687 01:04:25,069 --> 01:04:23,040 we know that 1688 01:04:26,930 --> 01:04:25,079 I mean again I'm gonna bring in some of 1689 01:04:30,109 --> 01:04:26,940 my own cosmology here but from my under 1690 01:04:34,130 --> 01:04:30,119 my my point of view you know the most 1691 01:04:36,109 --> 01:04:34,140 advanced ones are post form and Beyond 1692 01:04:39,170 --> 01:04:36,119 the need for spacecraft right they just 1693 01:04:40,609 --> 01:04:39,180 sort of travel and manifest via thought 1694 01:04:42,770 --> 01:04:40,619 alone right so they don't need a 1695 01:04:43,970 --> 01:04:42,780 spacecraft from Alpha Centauri to get 1696 01:04:45,829 --> 01:04:43,980 here 1697 01:04:48,049 --> 01:04:45,839 um if they do it's usually for some 1698 01:04:50,930 --> 01:04:48,059 other reason not not because they need 1699 01:04:53,329 --> 01:04:50,940 it there's some ones that are further 1700 01:04:54,829 --> 01:04:53,339 along than us but not as far along as 1701 01:04:56,390 --> 01:04:54,839 these other ones I've talked about that 1702 01:04:58,010 --> 01:04:56,400 can just move through mentation 1703 01:05:00,650 --> 01:04:58,020 processes alone 1704 01:05:02,150 --> 01:05:00,660 who do use spacecraft and are working 1705 01:05:04,549 --> 01:05:02,160 with technologies that might be 1706 01:05:06,710 --> 01:05:04,559 something we come across on our own 50 1707 01:05:07,250 --> 01:05:06,720 to 100 years into the future 1708 01:05:07,970 --> 01:05:07,260 [Music] 1709 01:05:11,390 --> 01:05:07,980 um 1710 01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,400 but just like us there's a range of 1711 01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:13,920 you know moral development across that 1712 01:05:18,109 --> 01:05:15,839 Spectrum too some are 1713 01:05:20,329 --> 01:05:18,119 they're not malevolent or demonic but 1714 01:05:22,490 --> 01:05:20,339 they may still be kind of power Brokers 1715 01:05:26,089 --> 01:05:22,500 and trying to play the game and win the 1716 01:05:28,190 --> 01:05:26,099 game just like some you know politicians 1717 01:05:29,270 --> 01:05:28,200 who think that they'll smile and tell 1718 01:05:31,130 --> 01:05:29,280 you the right thing but really they're 1719 01:05:32,809 --> 01:05:31,140 out for what they how they can gain or 1720 01:05:35,270 --> 01:05:32,819 maybe they see it as a win-win for both 1721 01:05:37,609 --> 01:05:35,280 or whatever the point being it's complex 1722 01:05:39,710 --> 01:05:37,619 and and I don't know why people think it 1723 01:05:42,349 --> 01:05:39,720 would be any different with these others 1724 01:05:45,230 --> 01:05:42,359 but the bottom line is all of this data 1725 01:05:46,910 --> 01:05:45,240 already exists so for me uh and this is 1726 01:05:48,410 --> 01:05:46,920 beyond sort of like the revelations I've 1727 01:05:51,530 --> 01:05:48,420 had and some of the contact experiences 1728 01:05:52,970 --> 01:05:51,540 but for me in some ways and even people 1729 01:05:54,349 --> 01:05:52,980 like Stephen Greer have said this right 1730 01:05:56,690 --> 01:05:54,359 what this really is is about 1731 01:06:00,170 --> 01:05:56,700 confirmation not disclosure right he 1732 01:06:02,030 --> 01:06:00,180 says that we know what's going on uh 1733 01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,040 what we really want is the governance of 1734 01:06:06,049 --> 01:06:04,079 the world to confirm this case so that 1735 01:06:08,210 --> 01:06:06,059 it can begin to have the Ripple effects 1736 01:06:09,470 --> 01:06:08,220 through Society 1737 01:06:10,970 --> 01:06:09,480 mm-hmm 1738 01:06:13,370 --> 01:06:10,980 right 1739 01:06:16,069 --> 01:06:13,380 well and I I mean I think we would both 1740 01:06:18,410 --> 01:06:16,079 probably agree that those Ripple effects 1741 01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:18,420 aren't exactly easy to predict 1742 01:06:22,309 --> 01:06:19,020 um 1743 01:06:26,329 --> 01:06:22,319 and because there are varying degrees of 1744 01:06:29,029 --> 01:06:26,339 information to disclose some of which we 1745 01:06:31,130 --> 01:06:29,039 I think may know pretty clearly but 1746 01:06:32,829 --> 01:06:31,140 others become a little bit more 1747 01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:32,839 ambiguous 1748 01:06:38,089 --> 01:06:35,280 what that actually means and how it 1749 01:06:39,710 --> 01:06:38,099 impacts people becomes more and more 1750 01:06:41,390 --> 01:06:39,720 difficult to predict because we don't 1751 01:06:43,490 --> 01:06:41,400 you know it's hard to game that out if 1752 01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:43,500 we don't really know to the extent that 1753 01:06:48,410 --> 01:06:46,799 we what we know or don't know 1754 01:06:50,089 --> 01:06:48,420 um you know the example that you gave a 1755 01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:50,099 second ago reminded me of something we 1756 01:06:55,130 --> 01:06:52,799 talked about before we went on air and 1757 01:06:56,750 --> 01:06:55,140 that's the notion that some of these 1758 01:06:59,029 --> 01:06:56,760 beings and this is the reason why I'm 1759 01:07:00,890 --> 01:06:59,039 bringing this up because in our recent 1760 01:07:03,529 --> 01:07:00,900 conversations this has been particularly 1761 01:07:07,609 --> 01:07:03,539 helpful for me and how I conceptualize 1762 01:07:09,289 --> 01:07:07,619 some of these others that they are as 1763 01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:09,299 you said perhaps more technologically 1764 01:07:14,809 --> 01:07:12,000 advanced than us but not necessarily uh 1765 01:07:17,630 --> 01:07:14,819 more more morally Advanced or maybe on a 1766 01:07:18,529 --> 01:07:17,640 similar developmental level uh than we 1767 01:07:20,809 --> 01:07:18,539 are 1768 01:07:21,829 --> 01:07:20,819 um and so you know imagine if you will 1769 01:07:25,069 --> 01:07:21,839 that 1770 01:07:27,829 --> 01:07:25,079 uh we had the technology to visit 1771 01:07:31,250 --> 01:07:27,839 another planet that had life forms on it 1772 01:07:33,529 --> 01:07:31,260 that were you know primitive human in in 1773 01:07:35,930 --> 01:07:33,539 their intelligence level but we could 1774 01:07:37,010 --> 01:07:35,940 come down in our spacecraft and we of 1775 01:07:39,470 --> 01:07:37,020 course we would be sending our 1776 01:07:41,569 --> 01:07:39,480 astronauts and our astronauts are often 1777 01:07:43,250 --> 01:07:41,579 also scientists so the very particular 1778 01:07:44,930 --> 01:07:43,260 kinds of people you know would be coming 1779 01:07:47,630 --> 01:07:44,940 down the spacecraft and would be 1780 01:07:50,510 --> 01:07:47,640 introducing them themselves to these 1781 01:07:51,529 --> 01:07:50,520 primitive uh intelligences and assuming 1782 01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:51,539 that they could have some kind of 1783 01:07:56,690 --> 01:07:53,359 meaningful communication 1784 01:07:58,670 --> 01:07:56,700 we would be imparting whatever knowledge 1785 01:08:01,010 --> 01:07:58,680 we think we have understood about 1786 01:08:04,549 --> 01:08:01,020 reality you know to these primitive 1787 01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:04,559 beings and to them you know it would 1788 01:08:08,390 --> 01:08:06,000 just seem like well that's just the way 1789 01:08:10,190 --> 01:08:08,400 that it is right I mean they told me 1790 01:08:12,529 --> 01:08:10,200 that this is you know this is how it 1791 01:08:15,589 --> 01:08:12,539 works and well gee that that's what 1792 01:08:17,930 --> 01:08:15,599 reality must be but you and I know that 1793 01:08:20,570 --> 01:08:17,940 our notion of reality even if we've been 1794 01:08:23,150 --> 01:08:20,580 able to master space flight you know to 1795 01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:23,160 that degree like it's still evolving and 1796 01:08:26,990 --> 01:08:25,679 limited so you know that gives you a 1797 01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:27,000 certain picture about what might be 1798 01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:28,319 happening here and I think a lot of 1799 01:08:33,410 --> 01:08:30,000 folks attribute a kind of god-like 1800 01:08:35,329 --> 01:08:33,420 knowledge to the others that they have 1801 01:08:38,269 --> 01:08:35,339 some sort of all-encompassing awareness 1802 01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:38,279 about how things actually are and I 1803 01:08:43,010 --> 01:08:40,020 would argue that that's absolutely 1804 01:08:44,809 --> 01:08:43,020 impossible the the there's no way that 1805 01:08:46,669 --> 01:08:44,819 that could be true 1806 01:08:47,870 --> 01:08:46,679 um so I want you I want you to touch on 1807 01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,880 that what do you think about that yeah 1808 01:08:51,289 --> 01:08:49,920 absolutely right I mean um from my 1809 01:08:56,209 --> 01:08:51,299 perspective even some of the most 1810 01:09:01,010 --> 01:08:58,970 arrive at a a real place of humility 1811 01:09:03,169 --> 01:09:01,020 even though they're much more advanced 1812 01:09:04,729 --> 01:09:03,179 than we are and they will voluntarily 1813 01:09:07,370 --> 01:09:04,739 say there's plenty we don't know either 1814 01:09:08,990 --> 01:09:07,380 we can we're happy to Grant as much 1815 01:09:10,610 --> 01:09:09,000 knowledge as we can based on our 1816 01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:10,620 understanding but beyond that even 1817 01:09:13,610 --> 01:09:12,480 that's you know a black hole to us in 1818 01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:13,620 terms of what's on the other side of it 1819 01:09:19,370 --> 01:09:16,799 right because it spirals all the way up 1820 01:09:21,950 --> 01:09:19,380 um and I also think it's important for 1821 01:09:25,249 --> 01:09:21,960 people to keep in mind that just because 1822 01:09:26,930 --> 01:09:25,259 you get abducted by a gray alien who 1823 01:09:28,910 --> 01:09:26,940 tells you this is a prison planet and 1824 01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:28,920 they have a right to dominate us doesn't 1825 01:09:33,530 --> 01:09:32,400 mean that's true I mean like this goes 1826 01:09:36,410 --> 01:09:33,540 to what you're saying about the Godlike 1827 01:09:38,450 --> 01:09:36,420 powers like we uh if someone abducted us 1828 01:09:41,150 --> 01:09:38,460 that was a human being and said actually 1829 01:09:43,490 --> 01:09:41,160 my name's Quasar and I'm the second 1830 01:09:45,470 --> 01:09:43,500 incarnation of Christ we might not take 1831 01:09:47,209 --> 01:09:45,480 him at his word right 1832 01:09:48,890 --> 01:09:47,219 um right why would we do it because it's 1833 01:09:50,689 --> 01:09:48,900 a gray alien because it's a gray alien 1834 01:09:52,849 --> 01:09:50,699 that's why we do it right it's so other 1835 01:09:54,770 --> 01:09:52,859 and we're we're in such a degree of 1836 01:09:57,229 --> 01:09:54,780 ontological shock about reality is not 1837 01:09:59,030 --> 01:09:57,239 what we thought that we are we've we've 1838 01:10:01,310 --> 01:09:59,040 taken our discernment offline and we 1839 01:10:02,450 --> 01:10:01,320 feel uh in these kind of I'm talking 1840 01:10:03,830 --> 01:10:02,460 about the negative ones there's plenty 1841 01:10:05,150 --> 01:10:03,840 of positive encounters with gray aliens 1842 01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:05,160 but I'm talking about the negative ones 1843 01:10:07,910 --> 01:10:06,239 because again it's more about 1844 01:10:10,250 --> 01:10:07,920 developmental levels and it's about a 1845 01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:10,260 particular kind of appearance of a being 1846 01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:13,199 people need to remember that 1847 01:10:19,729 --> 01:10:17,280 um you know they they sometimes will 1848 01:10:21,830 --> 01:10:19,739 deliberately put you in a position that 1849 01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:21,840 will make you feel like an animal 1850 01:10:26,270 --> 01:10:23,760 because they know what that does to you 1851 01:10:28,070 --> 01:10:26,280 psychologically right so 1852 01:10:29,630 --> 01:10:28,080 I sometimes see people and this is again 1853 01:10:31,790 --> 01:10:29,640 why I have a very 1854 01:10:34,250 --> 01:10:31,800 you know nuanced view on this there's 1855 01:10:35,510 --> 01:10:34,260 many different elements of it I see some 1856 01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,520 people 1857 01:10:39,649 --> 01:10:37,440 and I myself have had really positive 1858 01:10:41,149 --> 01:10:39,659 encounters with benevolent entities but 1859 01:10:42,709 --> 01:10:41,159 that isn't to say there aren't some that 1860 01:10:44,810 --> 01:10:42,719 are not so much and again not so much 1861 01:10:47,390 --> 01:10:44,820 because they're malevolent demonic like 1862 01:10:50,030 --> 01:10:47,400 always were always will be dark beings I 1863 01:10:53,390 --> 01:10:50,040 don't mean that I mean that they're just 1864 01:10:55,010 --> 01:10:53,400 lower on the developmental scale and so 1865 01:10:57,890 --> 01:10:55,020 there's still power Brokers they're 1866 01:10:59,270 --> 01:10:57,900 still in a zero-sum game even if they 1867 01:11:00,709 --> 01:10:59,280 give you something it's because they 1868 01:11:02,810 --> 01:11:00,719 want something in return you know just 1869 01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:02,820 like human beings right 1870 01:11:07,130 --> 01:11:05,040 um I remember one time seeing this 1871 01:11:09,290 --> 01:11:07,140 this real estate show is one of these 1872 01:11:11,149 --> 01:11:09,300 house flip shows right and this one guy 1873 01:11:13,070 --> 01:11:11,159 was you know fixing up this house he was 1874 01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:13,080 going to flip like a week later and some 1875 01:11:15,890 --> 01:11:14,640 neighbors came over and he was just on 1876 01:11:17,510 --> 01:11:15,900 some Street another house that he'd 1877 01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:17,520 bought right and he said to them yeah 1878 01:11:21,709 --> 01:11:18,480 I'm just trying to bring some real 1879 01:11:23,510 --> 01:11:21,719 dignity to the community and I thought 1880 01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:23,520 hello to hogwash I mean he's trying to 1881 01:11:26,930 --> 01:11:25,199 make a quick flip and make a buck I'm 1882 01:11:28,310 --> 01:11:26,940 not saying that's wrong but when he 1883 01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:28,320 tells people that this is why I'm doing 1884 01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:30,480 it I mean come on who's the thrilling 1885 01:11:34,010 --> 01:11:32,400 kind of thing so but he may have even 1886 01:11:35,930 --> 01:11:34,020 delude himself into thinking that's what 1887 01:11:37,250 --> 01:11:35,940 he's doing right or maybe he partly 1888 01:11:39,350 --> 01:11:37,260 feels good about the fact that it 1889 01:11:42,169 --> 01:11:39,360 there's a there's another consequence to 1890 01:11:44,689 --> 01:11:42,179 him making money I'm saying it's it's a 1891 01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:44,699 mixed bag right in terms of the 1892 01:11:48,770 --> 01:11:47,520 the impetus for that kind of interaction 1893 01:11:50,689 --> 01:11:48,780 there and I'm saying it's the same way 1894 01:11:52,669 --> 01:11:50,699 with some of these others and I think 1895 01:11:55,430 --> 01:11:52,679 sometimes that people have to try too 1896 01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:55,440 hard to figure out why that must be a 1897 01:11:59,870 --> 01:11:57,360 positive encounter maybe it's not as 1898 01:12:02,530 --> 01:11:59,880 positive as they think because 1899 01:12:06,590 --> 01:12:02,540 um if you're in a situation where 1900 01:12:08,390 --> 01:12:06,600 dominance seems to be a key element just 1901 01:12:10,970 --> 01:12:08,400 for the sake of dominance not because it 1902 01:12:13,130 --> 01:12:10,980 serves some evident purpose then I would 1903 01:12:15,310 --> 01:12:13,140 say that tells you something right and 1904 01:12:18,890 --> 01:12:15,320 again this is where 1905 01:12:20,630 --> 01:12:18,900 discernment is so so key we can't 1906 01:12:22,490 --> 01:12:20,640 put our discernment on the Shelf just 1907 01:12:24,410 --> 01:12:22,500 because these are gray aliens or 1908 01:12:27,470 --> 01:12:24,420 Celestial beings or beings of light or 1909 01:12:29,450 --> 01:12:27,480 whatever whatever they look like you 1910 01:12:31,070 --> 01:12:29,460 know pay attention to the fruit of the 1911 01:12:33,229 --> 01:12:31,080 Endeavor you know how does it impact you 1912 01:12:37,070 --> 01:12:33,239 how do they treat you 1913 01:12:39,470 --> 01:12:37,080 um the most highly civilized one so once 1914 01:12:41,270 --> 01:12:39,480 furthest along this this scale of the 1915 01:12:45,290 --> 01:12:41,280 spectrum of development 1916 01:12:47,209 --> 01:12:45,300 see you as an equal they see in you a 1917 01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:47,219 reflection of the cosmic intelligence 1918 01:12:51,290 --> 01:12:49,679 which they see in each other as well and 1919 01:12:52,790 --> 01:12:51,300 if something's not there then that's 1920 01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:52,800 telling you they're not as far along as 1921 01:12:57,290 --> 01:12:54,900 you might think otherwise regardless of 1922 01:12:59,030 --> 01:12:57,300 what the uh their technology might 1923 01:13:01,729 --> 01:12:59,040 indicate 1924 01:13:04,430 --> 01:13:01,739 hmm well yeah I wanted to talk about 1925 01:13:06,649 --> 01:13:04,440 discernment because uh it is something 1926 01:13:09,229 --> 01:13:06,659 that I wonder a great deal about 1927 01:13:12,950 --> 01:13:09,239 particularly with your own journey and 1928 01:13:15,590 --> 01:13:12,960 uh how you seem to have developed some 1929 01:13:19,970 --> 01:13:15,600 greater Clarity around what things are 1930 01:13:22,430 --> 01:13:19,980 how things are working and uh I wanted 1931 01:13:24,010 --> 01:13:22,440 you to touch a little bit about how on a 1932 01:13:26,810 --> 01:13:24,020 little bit how we can 1933 01:13:30,890 --> 01:13:26,820 really discern the nature of how things 1934 01:13:32,870 --> 01:13:30,900 are even if we are maybe as many degrees 1935 01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:32,880 removed from 1936 01:13:37,130 --> 01:13:35,280 the greater scope of awareness that we 1937 01:13:39,590 --> 01:13:37,140 might need to be able to make such 1938 01:13:42,110 --> 01:13:39,600 pronouncements and you know an example 1939 01:13:45,050 --> 01:13:42,120 that you gave to me in an earlier 1940 01:13:49,189 --> 01:13:45,060 conversation is sort of this kind of uh 1941 01:13:51,830 --> 01:13:49,199 fractal nature of reality that uh there 1942 01:13:53,510 --> 01:13:51,840 are repeating kinds of patterns uh 1943 01:13:55,729 --> 01:13:53,520 throughout reality itself that you can 1944 01:13:58,610 --> 01:13:55,739 kind of take you know smaller and 1945 01:14:01,370 --> 01:13:58,620 smaller slices of it yet there's similar 1946 01:14:02,750 --> 01:14:01,380 qualities that are present and I wonder 1947 01:14:05,030 --> 01:14:02,760 if you can kind of unpack that a little 1948 01:14:07,910 --> 01:14:05,040 bit uh related to this notion of 1949 01:14:11,350 --> 01:14:07,920 discernment because I think you know for 1950 01:14:13,850 --> 01:14:11,360 me as well like it's difficult to 1951 01:14:15,770 --> 01:14:13,860 you know understand 1952 01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:15,780 the kind of certainty that you seem to 1953 01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:17,880 have around this 1954 01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:20,640 um particularly when one of my earlier 1955 01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:22,260 thoughts when it came to non-human 1956 01:14:25,970 --> 01:14:24,000 intelligence was 1957 01:14:29,090 --> 01:14:25,980 and still is to some degree 1958 01:14:31,370 --> 01:14:29,100 the the asymmetrical nature of knowledge 1959 01:14:33,649 --> 01:14:31,380 here in the relationship you know how am 1960 01:14:35,870 --> 01:14:33,659 I able to trust you know these other 1961 01:14:37,669 --> 01:14:35,880 intelligences what is it of anything 1962 01:14:40,610 --> 01:14:37,679 that they're telling to me or revealing 1963 01:14:41,750 --> 01:14:40,620 to us that I can take at face value 1964 01:14:44,209 --> 01:14:41,760 um and and you speak a lot about 1965 01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:44,219 intuition and and and and then 1966 01:14:47,510 --> 01:14:45,600 discernment quality here and I just 1967 01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:47,520 wondering if you know how do we parse 1968 01:14:51,649 --> 01:14:49,380 that because you know what if somebody 1969 01:14:52,970 --> 01:14:51,659 says you know Darren there I know I know 1970 01:14:55,430 --> 01:14:52,980 that's what it feels like to you but 1971 01:14:57,310 --> 01:14:55,440 they're making you feel that way and you 1972 01:14:59,750 --> 01:14:57,320 want to feel those things and so 1973 01:15:02,270 --> 01:14:59,760 therefore you know you're you're being 1974 01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,280 duped by them right I mean I had someone 1975 01:15:06,290 --> 01:15:04,560 recently 1976 01:15:07,490 --> 01:15:06,300 say this sincerely like they were 1977 01:15:09,110 --> 01:15:07,500 actually wanting to know my opinion on 1978 01:15:10,370 --> 01:15:09,120 it not because they they necessarily 1979 01:15:12,410 --> 01:15:10,380 thought I was being duped or other 1980 01:15:14,330 --> 01:15:12,420 people were being duped but they were 1981 01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:14,340 just saying so you know theoretically we 1982 01:15:20,090 --> 01:15:17,280 know that they can impact our moods our 1983 01:15:22,130 --> 01:15:20,100 emotions they can you know seemingly 1984 01:15:24,410 --> 01:15:22,140 calm us down when they need to 1985 01:15:28,130 --> 01:15:24,420 what's to say with that degree of 1986 01:15:30,890 --> 01:15:28,140 granular ability to manipulate our 1987 01:15:31,729 --> 01:15:30,900 mental and emotional states that they 1988 01:15:33,950 --> 01:15:31,739 couldn't 1989 01:15:36,590 --> 01:15:33,960 make us believe they're these benevolent 1990 01:15:38,450 --> 01:15:36,600 angelic-like beings when really they're 1991 01:15:40,610 --> 01:15:38,460 anything but 1992 01:15:43,070 --> 01:15:40,620 I would say a couple things to that 1993 01:15:45,470 --> 01:15:43,080 and it gets complex 1994 01:15:46,689 --> 01:15:45,480 um I say that almost every question now 1995 01:15:49,130 --> 01:15:46,699 but but 1996 01:15:51,229 --> 01:15:49,140 I do think 1997 01:15:53,270 --> 01:15:51,239 a lot of people have lost touch with 1998 01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:53,280 their ability to 1999 01:15:58,310 --> 01:15:55,440 trust their discernment and for their 2000 01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:58,320 discernment to be arising from a quality 2001 01:16:03,110 --> 01:16:01,199 of the non-dual source of all that is 2002 01:16:04,610 --> 01:16:03,120 and what I was saying to you about the 2003 01:16:07,790 --> 01:16:04,620 fractal quality was like kind of like 2004 01:16:10,250 --> 01:16:07,800 with a with a hologram you know is a a 2005 01:16:12,410 --> 01:16:10,260 small slice of the totality right no 2006 01:16:14,149 --> 01:16:12,420 matter how many times you divide it up 2007 01:16:17,870 --> 01:16:14,159 it's still got the totality in that 2008 01:16:21,050 --> 01:16:17,880 right so it's not just that we are you 2009 01:16:23,149 --> 01:16:21,060 know in God or in the cosmic Source but 2010 01:16:24,890 --> 01:16:23,159 the cosmic source is in US 2011 01:16:28,310 --> 01:16:24,900 and so 2012 01:16:29,870 --> 01:16:28,320 when we are Discerning from that place 2013 01:16:32,390 --> 01:16:29,880 then we have 2014 01:16:34,370 --> 01:16:32,400 a remarkable ability to tune into that 2015 01:16:35,870 --> 01:16:34,380 because 2016 01:16:42,290 --> 01:16:35,880 the 2017 01:16:43,669 --> 01:16:42,300 this is again where you're going to get 2018 01:16:45,770 --> 01:16:43,679 into 2019 01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:45,780 some presuppositions right like uh 2020 01:16:51,229 --> 01:16:48,239 Donald Hoffman will say 2021 01:16:52,669 --> 01:16:51,239 I think Consciousness is fundamental and 2022 01:16:54,050 --> 01:16:52,679 I'm going to say if Consciousness is 2023 01:16:55,250 --> 01:16:54,060 fundamental and you grant me that then 2024 01:16:58,370 --> 01:16:55,260 I'm going to try and boot up everything 2025 01:17:00,310 --> 01:16:58,380 else that we see in our apparent reality 2026 01:17:01,970 --> 01:17:00,320 but what he'll point out is that 2027 01:17:03,229 --> 01:17:01,980 reductionistic materialists or 2028 01:17:05,090 --> 01:17:03,239 physicalists are doing the very same 2029 01:17:06,709 --> 01:17:05,100 thing they're saying I'm going to assume 2030 01:17:07,729 --> 01:17:06,719 there's this thing called matter and 2031 01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,739 from that I'm going to boot up 2032 01:17:10,970 --> 01:17:09,120 Consciousness and blah blah blah but 2033 01:17:14,090 --> 01:17:10,980 they too are like beginning with some 2034 01:17:15,890 --> 01:17:14,100 assumptions some Givens I admit that I 2035 01:17:17,990 --> 01:17:15,900 am too but but I would just say that I'm 2036 01:17:20,689 --> 01:17:18,000 I'm following in Tradition not only of 2037 01:17:22,610 --> 01:17:20,699 my own uh experiences with some of these 2038 01:17:24,709 --> 01:17:22,620 others but as I was saying to you before 2039 01:17:27,770 --> 01:17:24,719 the show this also fits with all of the 2040 01:17:29,870 --> 01:17:27,780 the best sort of spiritual wisdom we've 2041 01:17:31,430 --> 01:17:29,880 inherited over 2042 01:17:33,050 --> 01:17:31,440 you know the entire existence of 2043 01:17:34,910 --> 01:17:33,060 humanity basically this sense of 2044 01:17:36,830 --> 01:17:34,920 non-dual source the sense that 2045 01:17:38,149 --> 01:17:36,840 Consciousness is the Bedrock of all that 2046 01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:38,159 is 2047 01:17:41,990 --> 01:17:40,080 um and so it's it's in the same way also 2048 01:17:44,209 --> 01:17:42,000 that I said earlier you know picture 2049 01:17:46,010 --> 01:17:44,219 yourself in that that 2050 01:17:48,110 --> 01:17:46,020 um apartment in Tokyo two months from 2051 01:17:49,250 --> 01:17:48,120 now how do you feel right that's that 2052 01:17:51,169 --> 01:17:49,260 same thing I'm talking about that 2053 01:17:53,510 --> 01:17:51,179 element of being outside of space and 2054 01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:53,520 time and you're somehow able to take 2055 01:17:58,910 --> 01:17:56,400 your rational mind offline and tune into 2056 01:18:00,890 --> 01:17:58,920 something that's really real and it's 2057 01:18:03,470 --> 01:18:00,900 really fundamental okay 2058 01:18:05,209 --> 01:18:03,480 and the truth is we're doing that much 2059 01:18:07,610 --> 01:18:05,219 more often than we realize and then 2060 01:18:09,950 --> 01:18:07,620 after the fact justifying it with 2061 01:18:12,530 --> 01:18:09,960 rationality right and we fool ourselves 2062 01:18:14,030 --> 01:18:12,540 even into thinking that the the 2063 01:18:15,350 --> 01:18:14,040 rationality is what made us make that 2064 01:18:17,930 --> 01:18:15,360 decision when it's usually the gut 2065 01:18:20,630 --> 01:18:17,940 instinct and then we after the fact wrap 2066 01:18:22,610 --> 01:18:20,640 that in a cloak of this rationality 2067 01:18:26,510 --> 01:18:22,620 in the same way I'm saying that rather 2068 01:18:28,430 --> 01:18:26,520 than going Hmm this alien being seems 2069 01:18:29,930 --> 01:18:28,440 good I mean he gave me chocolate and he 2070 01:18:32,510 --> 01:18:29,940 said nice things to me and made me feel 2071 01:18:35,510 --> 01:18:32,520 warm fuzzies you know but he could also 2072 01:18:37,490 --> 01:18:35,520 be I mean it's not that kind of pros and 2073 01:18:39,890 --> 01:18:37,500 cons list that that again is more in 2074 01:18:41,570 --> 01:18:39,900 that kind of rational uh approach I'm 2075 01:18:43,850 --> 01:18:41,580 saying this is trans-rational or 2076 01:18:46,250 --> 01:18:43,860 pre-rational 2077 01:18:49,669 --> 01:18:46,260 um trans-rational is a better term there 2078 01:18:52,610 --> 01:18:49,679 and and so you have this direct knowing 2079 01:18:54,649 --> 01:18:52,620 and I think when you have developed your 2080 01:18:56,390 --> 01:18:54,659 Consciousness when you've developed your 2081 01:18:59,090 --> 01:18:56,400 sense of be able to tune into non-dual 2082 01:19:01,250 --> 01:18:59,100 Source then I do believe we have the 2083 01:19:04,729 --> 01:19:01,260 capacity to do that even when we're 2084 01:19:07,669 --> 01:19:04,739 faced with a being that seems to have uh 2085 01:19:09,470 --> 01:19:07,679 capacities that make our Technologies 2086 01:19:11,209 --> 01:19:09,480 and our understanding of the nuances of 2087 01:19:13,070 --> 01:19:11,219 Consciousness seem as small and 2088 01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:13,080 incomplete 2089 01:19:18,590 --> 01:19:15,600 um I think that 2090 01:19:21,890 --> 01:19:18,600 I'm confident that if one of these 2091 01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:21,900 beings try to pull a fast one on Ramona 2092 01:19:26,090 --> 01:19:24,960 maharshi it wouldn't work okay so I 2093 01:19:29,209 --> 01:19:26,100 think that 2094 01:19:32,750 --> 01:19:29,219 um we sometimes sell short our own 2095 01:19:37,130 --> 01:19:32,760 ability to develop a real heightened 2096 01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:37,140 nuanced uh sense of discernment that 2097 01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:39,360 really is trustworthy you know of course 2098 01:19:42,649 --> 01:19:40,739 we need to do all our homework we need 2099 01:19:44,030 --> 01:19:42,659 to be aware of our own biases we need to 2100 01:19:45,530 --> 01:19:44,040 do our shadow work all that kind of 2101 01:19:48,050 --> 01:19:45,540 stuff spiritual hygiene all these things 2102 01:19:49,729 --> 01:19:48,060 I've talked about but I kind of balk at 2103 01:19:52,250 --> 01:19:49,739 the notion that we have no ability to 2104 01:19:54,229 --> 01:19:52,260 know really what these others mean I 2105 01:19:57,490 --> 01:19:54,239 think we do and I think that's what I 2106 01:20:06,590 --> 01:20:02,709 well and I recognize as well part of my 2107 01:20:09,890 --> 01:20:06,600 inhibition in uh struggling with this 2108 01:20:13,370 --> 01:20:09,900 issue you know it it's it's stems from 2109 01:20:16,370 --> 01:20:13,380 my own personality and uh you know 2110 01:20:19,010 --> 01:20:16,380 issues that I have with institutions or 2111 01:20:19,970 --> 01:20:19,020 you know Authority and 2112 01:20:22,250 --> 01:20:19,980 um 2113 01:20:23,990 --> 01:20:22,260 you know trust is uh it's a difficult 2114 01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:24,000 thing to 2115 01:20:30,290 --> 01:20:28,380 I think really objectively acquire 2116 01:20:32,810 --> 01:20:30,300 um because it can be violated at any 2117 01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:32,820 moment right just because you've 2118 01:20:36,350 --> 01:20:35,040 developed a trusting relationship with a 2119 01:20:38,630 --> 01:20:36,360 friend or whatnot doesn't mean they 2120 01:20:40,550 --> 01:20:38,640 can't break that in the next interaction 2121 01:20:42,169 --> 01:20:40,560 you know so it's always a little bit 2122 01:20:43,970 --> 01:20:42,179 fragile 2123 01:20:46,250 --> 01:20:43,980 uh can we just jump in for one second 2124 01:20:47,810 --> 01:20:46,260 because I think yeah one thing I said on 2125 01:20:50,209 --> 01:20:47,820 point of convergence I try to bring up 2126 01:20:52,610 --> 01:20:50,219 this analogy for people and I heard this 2127 01:20:55,570 --> 01:20:52,620 in a in a Buddhist proverb one time 2128 01:20:58,130 --> 01:20:55,580 to just really help people understand 2129 01:21:00,590 --> 01:20:58,140 elementally what's going on here and I 2130 01:21:02,930 --> 01:21:00,600 said you know in this situation say say 2131 01:21:04,490 --> 01:21:02,940 you accidentally you know knock one hand 2132 01:21:06,110 --> 01:21:04,500 with the other and that hand bangs 2133 01:21:07,790 --> 01:21:06,120 against a sharp object and you cut 2134 01:21:10,010 --> 01:21:07,800 yourself right 2135 01:21:11,630 --> 01:21:10,020 what your one hand does is it caresses 2136 01:21:14,090 --> 01:21:11,640 the other hand right and you sort of rub 2137 01:21:16,490 --> 01:21:14,100 it and try to feel better right 2138 01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:16,500 now when that's done does the left hand 2139 01:21:20,270 --> 01:21:18,719 say no now now I'm feeling better I'm 2140 01:21:22,070 --> 01:21:20,280 going to get back at your right hand you 2141 01:21:24,169 --> 01:21:22,080 mother you know how dare you do that you 2142 01:21:26,810 --> 01:21:24,179 know it doesn't cross our mind right 2143 01:21:30,410 --> 01:21:26,820 it's it's Preposterous for us to think 2144 01:21:31,790 --> 01:21:30,420 about you know hands of the same body 2145 01:21:33,950 --> 01:21:31,800 having that kind of adversarial 2146 01:21:35,990 --> 01:21:33,960 relationship and I'm saying that at this 2147 01:21:37,729 --> 01:21:36,000 sense of non-duality it really is no 2148 01:21:39,709 --> 01:21:37,739 different I know people think that 2149 01:21:41,330 --> 01:21:39,719 sounds nice maybe that people that 2150 01:21:43,370 --> 01:21:41,340 aren't there they say well that's that 2151 01:21:45,350 --> 01:21:43,380 sounds like a nice notion but I'm saying 2152 01:21:47,570 --> 01:21:45,360 that really is what's happening is that 2153 01:21:49,250 --> 01:21:47,580 the calculus at that level because of 2154 01:21:51,410 --> 01:21:49,260 the felt experience the same way that 2155 01:21:53,090 --> 01:21:51,420 you have two hands that never occurs to 2156 01:21:55,189 --> 01:21:53,100 you that you really see those as 2157 01:21:57,649 --> 01:21:55,199 ultimately separate you see them part of 2158 01:22:01,550 --> 01:21:57,659 you right and I'm saying that sense of 2159 01:22:03,530 --> 01:22:01,560 you expands ever expands into a broader 2160 01:22:06,709 --> 01:22:03,540 and broader sphere of concern and 2161 01:22:08,870 --> 01:22:06,719 influence As you move up this spiral of 2162 01:22:12,350 --> 01:22:08,880 Consciousness and so for these others 2163 01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:12,360 that's why I think you can trust their 2164 01:22:16,370 --> 01:22:14,400 sense of you know how they would hold 2165 01:22:18,709 --> 01:22:16,380 power or how they would consider you 2166 01:22:20,510 --> 01:22:18,719 versus them because at that point it 2167 01:22:22,490 --> 01:22:20,520 really is no different for them between 2168 01:22:25,070 --> 01:22:22,500 you and them than it is between your 2169 01:22:27,830 --> 01:22:25,080 left and your right hand 2170 01:22:30,530 --> 01:22:27,840 um one as you mentioned moments ago and 2171 01:22:32,689 --> 01:22:30,540 that can be discerned by how you are 2172 01:22:34,430 --> 01:22:32,699 being treated by them 2173 01:22:38,570 --> 01:22:34,440 um you know if you're being treated as a 2174 01:22:41,270 --> 01:22:38,580 peer uh or respected in in a similar way 2175 01:22:42,169 --> 01:22:41,280 and that's a good hint that they are in 2176 01:22:44,209 --> 01:22:42,179 fact 2177 01:22:47,030 --> 01:22:44,219 uh living in that kind of non-dual 2178 01:22:48,530 --> 01:22:47,040 expression it's a great point I mean if 2179 01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,540 they are 2180 01:22:52,010 --> 01:22:50,159 taking it out on the left hand with the 2181 01:22:53,209 --> 01:22:52,020 right hand then you have to ask where 2182 01:22:55,430 --> 01:22:53,219 are they really coming from and that 2183 01:22:57,350 --> 01:22:55,440 that's that's I think when people point 2184 01:22:59,149 --> 01:22:57,360 to this notion of Stockholm syndrome 2185 01:23:01,669 --> 01:22:59,159 right where people 2186 01:23:03,770 --> 01:23:01,679 historically have been taken captive by 2187 01:23:06,410 --> 01:23:03,780 other human beings who held them hostage 2188 01:23:08,090 --> 01:23:06,420 and they feel such a loss of agency no 2189 01:23:10,310 --> 01:23:08,100 sense of sovereignty that they 2190 01:23:11,810 --> 01:23:10,320 eventually begin to align with the the 2191 01:23:14,630 --> 01:23:11,820 intentions and the motives and the 2192 01:23:16,729 --> 01:23:14,640 agenda of their captives just to regain 2193 01:23:19,070 --> 01:23:16,739 some sense of a semblance of agency 2194 01:23:22,790 --> 01:23:19,080 right and I think that does happen here 2195 01:23:24,530 --> 01:23:22,800 I think this is again where I I um I I 2196 01:23:25,850 --> 01:23:24,540 end up offending both the love and light 2197 01:23:28,550 --> 01:23:25,860 and the Demons of Darkness people 2198 01:23:29,330 --> 01:23:28,560 because I say it's it's too complex for 2199 01:23:31,910 --> 01:23:29,340 that 2200 01:23:33,770 --> 01:23:31,920 and you need to apply basic discernment 2201 01:23:36,590 --> 01:23:33,780 but like you're pointing out you know if 2202 01:23:38,570 --> 01:23:36,600 if they are not treating you as an equal 2203 01:23:42,050 --> 01:23:38,580 if they are not 2204 01:23:43,669 --> 01:23:42,060 um going out of their way to show you 2205 01:23:45,130 --> 01:23:43,679 know love and concern now again I just 2206 01:23:47,750 --> 01:23:45,140 want to quickly say again in the Nuance 2207 01:23:50,810 --> 01:23:47,760 sometimes things are misunderstood 2208 01:23:53,570 --> 01:23:50,820 there's errors in Translation uh 2209 01:23:55,550 --> 01:23:53,580 sometimes they are startled or they're 2210 01:23:58,130 --> 01:23:55,560 not expecting how much we do have an 2211 01:24:00,530 --> 01:23:58,140 individuated experience of self and so 2212 01:24:02,510 --> 01:24:00,540 they don't know that it's going to be 2213 01:24:03,830 --> 01:24:02,520 um so ontologically shocking for us when 2214 01:24:05,870 --> 01:24:03,840 they're suddenly inside our heads or 2215 01:24:07,729 --> 01:24:05,880 where they can draw our Consciousness 2216 01:24:10,790 --> 01:24:07,739 out of our body and spin us around in a 2217 01:24:11,810 --> 01:24:10,800 new energy form with them right they 2218 01:24:13,250 --> 01:24:11,820 don't know how we're going to respond 2219 01:24:15,830 --> 01:24:13,260 because that's not been their felt 2220 01:24:16,850 --> 01:24:15,840 experience but in that case it's just a 2221 01:24:19,430 --> 01:24:16,860 matter of 2222 01:24:20,930 --> 01:24:19,440 um ignorance not knowing any better but 2223 01:24:22,850 --> 01:24:20,940 still meaning well that's a big 2224 01:24:24,410 --> 01:24:22,860 difference from that when you interact 2225 01:24:25,970 --> 01:24:24,420 from when you interact with beings that 2226 01:24:26,810 --> 01:24:25,980 you know 2227 01:24:28,970 --> 01:24:26,820 um 2228 01:24:30,649 --> 01:24:28,980 are being dominating just for the sake 2229 01:24:34,010 --> 01:24:30,659 of being dominating like they're trying 2230 01:24:35,570 --> 01:24:34,020 to set up a power arrangement in the 2231 01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:35,580 nature of the experience itself and I 2232 01:24:39,770 --> 01:24:37,920 think if people really feel into it and 2233 01:24:41,990 --> 01:24:39,780 they apply to sermon they will be able 2234 01:24:45,310 --> 01:24:42,000 to determine much of the time which one 2235 01:24:50,090 --> 01:24:47,810 well if uh if you weren't sure that 2236 01:24:52,130 --> 01:24:50,100 metaphysics was at the heart of this uh 2237 01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:52,140 really conversation then I hope that 2238 01:24:56,870 --> 01:24:54,719 that's becoming very clear because so 2239 01:25:00,290 --> 01:24:56,880 much of this does come down to our 2240 01:25:01,790 --> 01:25:00,300 metaphysical model of reality and I'd 2241 01:25:02,890 --> 01:25:01,800 like to point out just in saying that 2242 01:25:05,390 --> 01:25:02,900 that 2243 01:25:07,250 --> 01:25:05,400 the the West 2244 01:25:10,490 --> 01:25:07,260 you know having interacted with whatever 2245 01:25:12,770 --> 01:25:10,500 this happens to be you know has a has a 2246 01:25:14,209 --> 01:25:12,780 metaphysical you know sort of Heritage 2247 01:25:16,729 --> 01:25:14,219 there 2248 01:25:19,010 --> 01:25:16,739 um and it's not necessarily and I would 2249 01:25:22,550 --> 01:25:19,020 argue not very much at all in alignment 2250 01:25:26,030 --> 01:25:22,560 with a non-dual perspective on reality 2251 01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:26,040 and so take that Heritage and take the 2252 01:25:31,070 --> 01:25:27,900 interaction that we have reportedly had 2253 01:25:32,990 --> 01:25:31,080 with these others and you very easily 2254 01:25:36,010 --> 01:25:33,000 can come back to where we started this 2255 01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:36,020 conversation in in a situation where 2256 01:25:43,610 --> 01:25:40,320 you're limited uh I think narrow 2257 01:25:46,610 --> 01:25:43,620 perspective on on reality really does 2258 01:25:49,790 --> 01:25:46,620 constrain it it it it it just like that 2259 01:25:51,709 --> 01:25:49,800 that gray alien is in a Plexiglas box 2260 01:25:53,630 --> 01:25:51,719 you know we're in a clear box 2261 01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:53,640 constrained by our metaphysical 2262 01:25:59,270 --> 01:25:56,639 presuppositions and that kind of 2263 01:26:01,490 --> 01:25:59,280 thinking and Heritage has absolutely 2264 01:26:04,129 --> 01:26:01,500 dominated and influenced where we are 2265 01:26:06,290 --> 01:26:04,139 today and imagine where we would be if 2266 01:26:08,050 --> 01:26:06,300 we had had those interactions and we had 2267 01:26:10,669 --> 01:26:08,060 had them from a completely different 2268 01:26:13,790 --> 01:26:10,679 metaphysical standpoint yeah and part of 2269 01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:13,800 the irony with all that is that some of 2270 01:26:16,669 --> 01:26:15,600 the very messages these others are 2271 01:26:18,590 --> 01:26:16,679 bringing 2272 01:26:21,709 --> 01:26:18,600 have been around 2273 01:26:23,390 --> 01:26:21,719 for thousands of years via vedantic and 2274 01:26:26,390 --> 01:26:23,400 Buddhist traditions in terms of 2275 01:26:28,669 --> 01:26:26,400 non-duality and yet even though that 2276 01:26:31,129 --> 01:26:28,679 knowledge existed in some parts of the 2277 01:26:33,709 --> 01:26:31,139 world it's not like that changed the 2278 01:26:35,750 --> 01:26:33,719 face of civilization right and what 2279 01:26:37,430 --> 01:26:35,760 we've in light of what you just talked 2280 01:26:40,010 --> 01:26:37,440 about in terms of our metaphysical 2281 01:26:43,129 --> 01:26:40,020 Heritage here in the West 2282 01:26:47,030 --> 01:26:44,930 the way we've been convinced of the 2283 01:26:48,709 --> 01:26:47,040 illusion right that the physical nature 2284 01:26:51,110 --> 01:26:48,719 of reality is Ultimate it's really real 2285 01:26:53,090 --> 01:26:51,120 and it's all there really is 2286 01:26:54,649 --> 01:26:53,100 has become even more convincing because 2287 01:26:57,649 --> 01:26:54,659 we've been able to manipulate it through 2288 01:26:59,990 --> 01:26:57,659 technology and whatnot to transform at 2289 01:27:03,950 --> 01:27:00,000 least one surface layer of our reality 2290 01:27:05,930 --> 01:27:03,960 right and so most people are not closer 2291 01:27:08,030 --> 01:27:05,940 to sort of a pedantic understanding 2292 01:27:10,610 --> 01:27:08,040 non-dual understanding of of reality 2293 01:27:13,129 --> 01:27:10,620 many people are further away 2294 01:27:14,450 --> 01:27:13,139 ironically even though we have like like 2295 01:27:15,950 --> 01:27:14,460 you talked about earlier plenty of 2296 01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:15,960 evidence coming from other places like 2297 01:27:19,910 --> 01:27:18,000 again the implications of quantum theory 2298 01:27:22,729 --> 01:27:19,920 are telling you that your physical 2299 01:27:24,649 --> 01:27:22,739 reality is not really real right 2300 01:27:26,209 --> 01:27:24,659 um your sense of self is not really real 2301 01:27:27,890 --> 01:27:26,219 I mean all these things that we'd sort 2302 01:27:30,350 --> 01:27:27,900 of take as given speaking of these 2303 01:27:33,350 --> 01:27:30,360 presuppositions are kind of demonstrably 2304 01:27:35,870 --> 01:27:33,360 not true like we just know that now but 2305 01:27:37,250 --> 01:27:35,880 because like the Matrix you know we we 2306 01:27:39,470 --> 01:27:37,260 like the 2307 01:27:41,510 --> 01:27:39,480 you know that Reg that steak tastes so 2308 01:27:42,649 --> 01:27:41,520 good right even if it's an illusion 2309 01:27:44,270 --> 01:27:42,659 you're just going to keep chewing 2310 01:27:46,930 --> 01:27:44,280 chewing away and you'd rather almost 2311 01:27:49,310 --> 01:27:46,940 just live in ignorance kind of thing or 2312 01:27:51,350 --> 01:27:49,320 semi-ignorance right 2313 01:27:53,030 --> 01:27:51,360 um so yeah it just goes to show again 2314 01:27:55,189 --> 01:27:53,040 speaking of coming coming back full 2315 01:27:59,090 --> 01:27:55,199 circle to what would disclosure actually 2316 01:28:01,250 --> 01:27:59,100 bring again the ironic aspect here is 2317 01:28:04,189 --> 01:28:01,260 that some of this understanding of the 2318 01:28:07,129 --> 01:28:04,199 non-dual non-physical ultimate nature of 2319 01:28:08,330 --> 01:28:07,139 reality is already in the milieu in 2320 01:28:10,790 --> 01:28:08,340 different places there's already 2321 01:28:13,729 --> 01:28:10,800 evidence of it in our ancient spiritual 2322 01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:13,739 traditions and even coming out of modern 2323 01:28:18,590 --> 01:28:16,560 Notions like quantum theory and yet it 2324 01:28:20,750 --> 01:28:18,600 really hasn't changed to society all 2325 01:28:23,510 --> 01:28:20,760 that much you could say we're more 2326 01:28:25,070 --> 01:28:23,520 wedded to our physicalist model because 2327 01:28:26,330 --> 01:28:25,080 of the shiny toys we've been able to 2328 01:28:28,790 --> 01:28:26,340 develop over the last couple hundred 2329 01:28:31,070 --> 01:28:28,800 years than we were beforehand so that 2330 01:28:34,550 --> 01:28:31,080 again raises a real question what really 2331 01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:38,689 foreign 2332 01:28:43,209 --> 01:28:40,669 I feel that we're on a precipice there 2333 01:28:48,189 --> 01:28:43,219 uh that our technology 2334 01:28:50,810 --> 01:28:48,199 are uh capacity and capability to craft 2335 01:28:52,250 --> 01:28:50,820 uh you know experiences and worlds of 2336 01:28:53,030 --> 01:28:52,260 our own choosing 2337 01:28:56,330 --> 01:28:53,040 um 2338 01:28:58,870 --> 01:28:56,340 it really is going to solidify this 2339 01:29:01,790 --> 01:28:58,880 materialistic worldview 2340 01:29:04,430 --> 01:29:01,800 and make it almost inescapable 2341 01:29:06,649 --> 01:29:04,440 and maybe we can kind of touch on that 2342 01:29:09,530 --> 01:29:06,659 on a future show you know what are the 2343 01:29:12,770 --> 01:29:09,540 implications of our society 2344 01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:12,780 uh doubling and tripling down on that 2345 01:29:19,550 --> 01:29:16,080 perspective even in the face of some of 2346 01:29:22,729 --> 01:29:19,560 these uh Revelations about non-duality 2347 01:29:24,169 --> 01:29:22,739 and and how reality actually is because 2348 01:29:28,010 --> 01:29:24,179 I do think we are faced with a choice 2349 01:29:30,110 --> 01:29:28,020 here and um much of the phenomena in my 2350 01:29:33,050 --> 01:29:30,120 opinion is an invitation to see things 2351 01:29:36,590 --> 01:29:33,060 differently and uh what happens if we 2352 01:29:40,310 --> 01:29:36,600 don't answer that call and decide to 2353 01:29:41,810 --> 01:29:40,320 remain in our ignorant States 2354 01:29:43,669 --> 01:29:41,820 you know so that'd be worth I think 2355 01:29:45,770 --> 01:29:43,679 digging into a little bit more in the 2356 01:29:49,010 --> 01:29:45,780 future yeah and part of the again I keep 2357 01:29:51,649 --> 01:29:49,020 using this word irony uh here is that I 2358 01:29:53,930 --> 01:29:51,659 think in the long run these Revelations 2359 01:29:56,270 --> 01:29:53,940 will catch up with us that we'll develop 2360 01:29:57,830 --> 01:29:56,280 our technology to such a degree 2361 01:30:00,169 --> 01:29:57,840 that we realize we're back where we 2362 01:30:01,910 --> 01:30:00,179 started in some ways we're back you know 2363 01:30:06,410 --> 01:30:01,920 sitting in a cave with Ramana maharshi 2364 01:30:09,110 --> 01:30:06,420 and realizing that all manipulation and 2365 01:30:10,910 --> 01:30:09,120 exploration of reality already exists 2366 01:30:13,129 --> 01:30:10,920 within us all the technology we need is 2367 01:30:15,770 --> 01:30:13,139 inner technology inner science 2368 01:30:17,870 --> 01:30:15,780 and it took us this huge exploration in 2369 01:30:19,910 --> 01:30:17,880 this one surface layer of apparent 2370 01:30:22,430 --> 01:30:19,920 reality illusory reality 2371 01:30:24,410 --> 01:30:22,440 to eventually be convinced by the sheer 2372 01:30:26,330 --> 01:30:24,420 volume of data that that's exactly where 2373 01:30:29,090 --> 01:30:26,340 it took us which is ironically where we 2374 01:30:33,590 --> 01:30:31,250 yeah 2375 01:30:34,930 --> 01:30:33,600 well we appreciate folks uh joining us 2376 01:30:38,629 --> 01:30:34,940 on this journey 2377 01:30:40,250 --> 01:30:38,639 in episode 19 and uh I know we've got a 2378 01:30:43,669 --> 01:30:40,260 couple episodes left to go before the 2379 01:30:46,070 --> 01:30:43,679 end of the year and uh also I'm looking 2380 01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:46,080 forward to the Inquirer anomalous 2381 01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:48,480 conference I'll be heading to later this 2382 01:30:53,180 --> 01:30:49,920 week so I hope to meet a lot of our 2383 01:30:53,810 --> 01:30:53,190 listeners who will be there in person 2384 01:30:54,530 --> 01:30:53,820 [Music] 2385 01:30:56,629 --> 01:30:54,540 um 2386 01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:56,639 and we'll keep this conversation going 2387 01:31:02,570 --> 01:31:00,239 so EXO it's been a real pleasure and uh 2388 01:31:04,970 --> 01:31:02,580 we'll in where we always do 2389 01:31:07,550 --> 01:31:04,980 thank you for listening and may the 2390 01:31:09,709 --> 01:31:07,560 quality of our questions shaped by a 2391 01:31:11,510 --> 01:31:09,719 desire for understanding enhance our 2392 01:31:13,550 --> 01:31:11,520 journey of discovery 2393 01:31:15,649 --> 01:31:13,560 and may our travels broaden the sphere 2394 01:31:19,070 --> 01:31:15,659 of our Consciousness reminding us that 2395 01:31:22,250 --> 01:31:19,080 new discoveries beget New Horizons as 2396 01:31:26,209 --> 01:31:22,260 always Adventure awaits we'll see you 2397 01:31:29,510 --> 01:31:27,380 foreign 2398 01:31:31,180 --> 01:31:29,520 [Music] 2399 01:31:37,490 --> 01:31:31,190 [Laughter]